V1.1.9.1 Discussion

most of pierce build i dont see any problem with getting max 100% armor piercing. In case of 2 handed weapon, most of them got 100% armor piercing already (Silverbolt, Nadaan, Rancor, Spite…). With a few of 1 handed weapon (like Brutallax, Nightclaw…), you just need to equiped 1 more sword and get Nadaan Constellation (it affected both weapons, not only the sword- you just need 1 sword in 1 hand). Few items got more increase armor piercing (will of blade, seelheart girdle) or just use a MI with Sinister affix. Using Silvercore Bolts or Whetstone will be too bad compare to Seal of blades. 90% armor piercing of Valdun is a weird example. If Brimstone doesnt get the conversion (100% or 33% doesnt matter), then thats another reason we should get a small buff to Valdun. It used to be OP- but now its just nothing special. And making it 100% armor piercing will not make it OP anyway, just make it a bit less annoying

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I am well aware of that, that’s why I wrote if you’re using TWO axes. With two Brutallaxes you can achieve 100%, but on two Nightclaws you can’t even with Steelheart and Will of the Blade. You’d also need to use Blessed Whetstone in both weapons, which you for one don’t want because “can’t use Seal of Blades”.

Also relying on some item(s) and/or certain prefix is a tough call because they may never drop or you need some other item/prefix in that slot.

then maybe you missed my point in the first place. I just want to discuss about Valdun, not other pierce weapons. And making to get 100% armor piercing with Valdun is nowhere impossible or make it way too OP. For your idea about other weapons (like Nightvlaw, Notch Bone), then maybe because you cant get 100% armor piercing with them is one of the reasons why we dont see any good builds that use them. They are for meme builds maybe, but not Valdun. And thats a totally different story than my discussion

How is it different? I said in the beginning that Valdun got nerfed because it was overperforming, thus you either cap pierce ratio or leave it at 90% and use Seal of Blades instead. Crate decided to tame Valdun this way, is all.

and now where he is?
I mean, a non-set pierce FS w/o any Valdun’s parts is significantly faster than 3pc and full Valdun too.
Also removing +1 to Demo on a points-hungry mastery while giving +2 to Soldier (the famous Valdun Commando, lol?) also hit it.

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Based on what we’ve been discussing in this thread would it be possible to get some as/cs on Radaggans?

Valdun Tactician also exists, and was asked to get buffs numerous times by members of the forum. e.g.

That said. I did advocate the Purifier side gets left alone as it seemed balanced enough as is and +1 or +2 Soldier gets added without removing any other skill bonuses. More damage or conversion to the Soldier side would also help to close the gap between Commando/Tactician and Purifier.

thats exactly what i said. Valdun got nerfed like 4-5 patches continuously. You tell me that now its still overperforming and still deserve to get those ugly 90% armor piercing because thats what Crate decided to tame it? ok how about make it 100% armor piercing and then nerf it another way? Like lower base dam, lower % pierce dam, lower more skill points?? at least it makes the build does not ugly for those 10% non-convert damage. Serious pierce build should get 100% armor piercing, not 90%, not 99%, not even 99,999999%

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If you really want it, the option for Valdun already exists like XandeRoot mentioned.

i did tried it (as i mentioned that Seal of Blades is superior to every armor piercing components). Pierce devo lack ADCTH. Nerfed to Scale to 3% ADCTH doesnt help at all. What i can think of is Ghoul + Hydra + Restless remain, and thats not enough. 5% ADCTH from SoB is way too much to ignore. And forcing Valdun to use Silvercore bolt (which has a freaking HUGE 100% increase armor piercing) just to get those ugly final 10%? ok fine then, we can dump Trecharous belt aside, just give me another belt for range pierce better than that, especially with better conversion LOL

You’re the one complaining about not getting that final 10% armour piercing on the Rifle here :stuck_out_tongue:. Accept that you can’t have everything sometimes and work with what you get given.

Didn’t say you had to. Even in spite of the armour piercing bonus doing nothing, it still gives you conversion, attack speed and a massive amount of flat Pierce damage. You can and should still use it.

i dont get it at all. let me say it again, Valdun right now is nowhere near overperforming. a set special made for 2 hand pierce range build got worse than some 2 hand pierce range builds that dont use it. But what i want is just make it 100% armor piercing, and if you still think its “OP”, nerf it another way. I dont see any serious pierce builds that cant get that very simple stat.

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could we get more sources of racial damage to Eldritch?
now the only source of it is Inq (and Malakors, lol, but who cares about them)
and we have Kaisan that has INCREDIBLE pierce res (higher than superbosses’ one) and high other resists.
so maybe it’s time to add some to pierce devos and somewhere to green-purple-red devos.

Then we need to see how and why per the above:


That I can tell, the last time Valdun was tested was mad_lee’s Top Gun which was doing fine back then. Granted it lost +1 Demo so needs retesting in Crucible with tweaks to account for that and testing in the new SR for everyone to see.


Valdun, pre-nerf 1.1.7.1:


PseudoValdun:


Pseudo PseudoValdun:


as you can see, Valdun is inferior to pierce FS than everything else.

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This says nothing on current 1.1.9 Valdun Purifier performance after the nerf. The only takeaway I can see Crate getting from this is just nerfing Pseudo-Pierce Fire Strike.

They don’t know how much to buff Valdun by or if it needs buffs at all.

it seems pretty obvious that non-set pierce FS performs WAY better than even pre-nerf Valdun, when it was a machine (and as we know, it got consistently nerfed for numerous patches).

But by how much? Do you honestly think playing a guessing game with numbers and buffs/nerfs is a good idea or would having concrete tests on how Valdun performs first before making any changes to it a good idea?

Like I said, they only have the above tested in 1.1.9 for pesudo-Pierce Fire Strike so can make changes to it knowing what they are doing. They can’t do that for Valdun until someone has actually played it in 1.1.9, can provide a grimtools link and can give some thoughts or evidence on it after the nerfs.

An interesting thing:
Valdun is one of the sets that were redesigned/buffed significantly
The majority of them were balanced incorrectly:

  1. Valdun isn’t worth itself for pierce FS (non-set is all around better)
  2. Iskandra is way better as full fire than bi- or tri-elemental
  3. Non-set aether AAR is better than full Clay
  4. Noone plays full Ulzuin
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Oh yeah, tone down better alternatives (like, reduce Armor Piercing for Silverbolt and Ugdenbog Boltthrower to 50%), so that every option would be equally inferior :laughing:. Crate’s “Vision” sometimes amazes me (not much, but still).