V1.1.9.1 Discussion

[Evil_Baka]

as you can see, Valdun is inferior to pierce FS than everything else.

This says nothing on current 1.1.9 Valdun Purifier performance after the nerf. The only takeaway I can see Crate getting from this is just nerfing Pseudo-Pierce Fire Strike.

They don’t know how much to buff Valdun by or if it needs buffs at all.

[afanasenkov26]

They don’t know how much to buff Valdun by or if it needs buffs at all.

it seems pretty obvious that non-set pierce FS performs WAY better than even pre-nerf Valdun, when it was a machine (and as we know, it got consistently nerfed for numerous patches).

[Evil_Baka]

it seems pretty obvious that non-set pierce FS performs WAY better than even pre-nerf Valdun, when it was a machine (and as we know, it got consistently nerfed for numerous patches).

But by how much? Do you honestly think playing a guessing game with numbers and buffs/nerfs is a good idea or would having concrete tests on how Valdun performs first before making any changes to it a good idea?

Like I said, they only have the above tested in 1.1.9 for pesudo-Pierce Fire Strike so can make changes to it knowing what they are doing. They can’t do that for Valdun until someone has actually played it in 1.1.9, can provide a grimtools link and can give some thoughts or evidence on it after the nerfs.

[Dmt]

An interesting thing:
Valdun is one of the sets that were redesigned/buffed significantly
The majority of them were balanced incorrectly:

1. Valdun isn’t worth itself for pierce FS (non-set is all around better)
2. Iskandra is way better as full fire than bi- or tri-elemental
3. Non-set aether AAR is better than full Clay
4. Noone plays full Ulzuin

[Willnoword]

This says nothing on current 1.1.9 Valdun Purifier performance after the nerf. The only takeaway I can see Crate getting from this is just nerfing Pseudo-Pierce Fire Strike.

Oh yeah, tone down better alternatives (like, reduce Armor Piercing for Silverbolt and Ugdenbog Boltthrower to 50%), so that every option would be equally inferior . Crate’s “Vision” sometimes amazes me (not much, but still).

[medea_fleecestealer]

Noone plays full Ulzuin

Hm.

[Challenge] The Ultos Throwdown

Ultos may have been a fat nerd, but his set has been loved by many a player since the start of Grim Dawn. Plus we’ve been arguing in reddit and discord channels about what class makes the best Ultos. As we are on the backside of development and I don’t expect there to be major changes to this set or supporting items, it’s finally time. For … THE ULTOS THROWDOWN 3 categories will be judged to determine the Mightiest Ultos! Fastest Galdiator Crucible 150-170 run Deepest Successful Ultimate S…

[arivus]

But that is Ultos medea

[Evil_Baka]

Well, Desolator is a big culprit as mentioned initially. afanasenkov’s suggestion of giving it Physical->Fire conversion is pretty sound way of hurting Pierce builds that try to use it.

Crate’s “Vision” sometimes amazes me (not much, but still).

Balancing an ARPG with as many options as we’ve got is no easy task to be fair

[afanasenkov26]

afanasenkov’s suggestion of giving it Physical->Fire conversion is pretty sound way of hurting Pierce builds that try to use it.

my suggestion was to give it pierce->fire conversion.

[Evil_Baka]

My mistake, but yes, that would also work.

[lMarcusl]

set reasonable expectations for what a build should be capable of (an indestructible vitality build probably shouldn’t be pushing sub 6 minutes in the Crucible, nor does a 5 minute build need buffs).

as you can see, Valdun is inferior to pierce FS than everything else.

Posts a 1.1.7.1 video of Valdun doing crucible in under 5 minutes. Like others have said, @gutten_morgen either show how a full Valdun performs right now in 1.1.9.0 or you have nothing on which to base your request for a buff. Yeah, sure, it has been nerfed since then. How. Much. Slower. Is. It? Cause even if it performs worse than non-set versions of the same build, it doesn’t matter if it’s still doing fine. There are plenty of other builds that can’t say the same. I’d rather they receive the attention instead.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Yikes.

[grey-maybe]

Well, Desolator is a big culprit as mentioned initially. afanasenkov’s suggestion of giving it Physical->Fire conversion is pretty sound way of hurting Pierce builds that try to use it.

mmm yes, adding phys to fire conversion to nerf a build, that has whooping 0 armor piercing is certainly the way. Not to mention, that there’s also green FS passthrough weapon, that will give the very same results, if not better.

Cause even if it performs worse than non-set versions of the same build, it doesn’t matter if it’s still doing fine.

it’s both slower and far less durable. also has non-working chaos to pierce conversion.
i don’t give a damn whether valdun is going to be buffed or not. don’t like ranged in this game. i linked those videos to show how much valdun is worse than any other non-set pierce FS.

[arivus]

It’s one of my long wish that there is item that enable dual-wield and support pet build at the same time. I’m thinking of adding it to Wendigo Gaze or any least used Epic medal for pet to enable new combination.

[banana_peel]

As someone who has the fastest Valdun run i’ll chip in. After seeing all those good results of ranged builds as of late I wanted to run it again but now that i looked at it i don’t want to.

The set allows for a high WD but it doesn’t help when you have 4 +all skills slots giving you only +1 to Demo. Fire Strike is the one AA skill that thrives on skill points (and Demo as a whole is a mastery that thrives on +all skills). With Valdun equiped you have the whole FS line at 13/12 and without proper conversions. No wonder it’s no match for simple alternatives now.

[Stupid_Dragon]

I’ve been vaguely following the valdun vs pseudo-valdun vs pseudo-pseudo valdun thing, in short:

1. Yeah, appears to be as Valdun set is worse for pierce FS than a mishmash version. If the timer was 4:45 for Valdun before the most recent nerfs it’s highly unlikely that it would suddenly improve. Whether it’s good or bad is debatable though, personally I feel like improving other underperforming ranged builds is a bigger priority than fine-tuning this particular issue.
2. Said it before and will say it again - piercethrough needs to be more abundant but at the same time more tightly controlled, because while for some ranged AA replacers it’s a very much deserved boost in build performance Fire Strike really doesn’t need it because of all the interactions it has with multibullet WPS. Non-conditioned mechanics have a disadvantage that once an OP build is discovered a lot of builds that don’t really deserve nerfs might become affected as a consequence of trying to bring the overperformer back into the fold.
3. For a quick patch of Desolator version Afanasenkov’s solution sounds give or take reasonable, afaik his fire version performs at about 5:15 best run:

Not sure how correct it is to compare a full purple build to build for GDStashers though.

[gutten_morgen]

guys. You missed my point completely. Valdun got some serious nerf as far as i remember:

• Lost 50% elemental converted to pierce, change to 50% fire converted

• Lost a lot of skill points from demo side

• Lost a lot of flat/ % damage

• Chaos conversion doesnt work with Brimstone (like every range FS we have a bunch of threads about that before)

But i dont care about that. And i dont ask for “just a buff”. The 30% armor piercing set bonus gives total 90% conversion. That makes no sense. Make it 100%, and if you want- nerf it more, somewhere else. I dont care how it performed by patches, dont care how good or bad it is. It got nerfed already, multiple times. Just make it a bit not ugly. Does those 10% will make it from 10 minutes Crucible to lower than 3 minutes? Every pierce builds got 100%. But here we are, with 90%. And please dont tell me to use S.Bolt. It wont even survive without Seal of Blade

[XandeRoot]

I’m personally all for increasing AP bonus to 50% on 2-pieces. It’s just I don’t believe they’ll do that because Valdun was performing too good.

[romanN1]

Valdun, pre-nerf 1.1.7.1:

Mad_lee’s Valdun Purifier 4.45 Crucible (4.35 buff timer run)

PseudoValdun :

Supertolik’s PseudoValdun vs. Crucible 150-170 (4:18)

Pseudo PseudoValdun :

Pseudo PseudoValdun vs. Crucible 150-170 (4:07 run)

as you can see, Valdun is inferior to pierce FS than everything else.

Let’s add their daddy to it too/

And current 1190 real Valdun… makes me wanna cry

1190 Valdun Purifier (real Valdun) - YouTube

[tqFan]

This is confusing. Let’s make a rule:

1 x Pseudo = 1 piece Valdun less

as in your last video.