Very high DA damage reduction

[CaiusMisus]

EDIT:
With the latest 1.2 patch, the lowest chance to get hit was reduced to 55%. Meaning that the highest damage reduction you can now achieve from the OA vs DA formula is 21.43% (55/70), assuming the threshold remained the same in patch 1.2.

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So, if you reach very high defensive ability numbers, all damage you receive is reduced by a certain amount. I’ve found 2 sources:

• One claims that if PTH < 75, the damage you receive will be multiplied by PTH/75
  Game Mechanics - Official Grim Dawn Wiki

• The second source claims that this reduction only starts at PTH 70 and under
  Guide – Gameplay – Combat – Grim Dawn

Can anyone confirm? If enemies have 60% chance of hitting, do they deal 80% damage (case 1) or ~86% damage (case2)? I’m currently playing my own, very tanky build and would like to know exactly.

[tqFan]

Check out my calculator - it shows / calculates the penalty “low OA penalty”: 🧮 Critical Hit / Resistance Calculators - DPS multipliers

I don’t think I confirmed this penalty by checking game’s filles / testing, only followed the guide. Perhaps I’ll try looking it up now

[CaiusMisus]

Thanks for the link, might fiddle with it in the future. Your calculator shows the value (14.29%) as the highest damage penalty from the OA-DA formula, which corresponds to the info in the second link. So the info in the first one is probably just outdated?

Also a bonus question, since the OA-DA calculation takes place first in the order of defense, does this reduction get applied first, before resistances, armor etc? And does it stack with a potential source of “X% Reduced target’s damage” like War Cry for example?

[tqFan]

@CaiusMisus

Thanks for the link, might fiddle with it in the future. Your calculator shows the value (14.29%) as the highest damage penalty from the OA-DA formula, which corresponds to the info in the second link. So the info in the first one is probably just outdated?

Tbh I probably just took it from there and didn’t test. I could quickly test it on a dummy but I’m currently in the middle of experiment / have the game’s minimized Blueprint Drops - #8 by tqFan and I cannot end my current session / mod the dummy / give my character low OA etc. for a few days.

[edit] I’ve just checked files but I don’t see this penalty in modable files so it might be deeper in the engine.

@CaiusMisus

Also a bonus question, since the OA-DA calculation takes place first in the order of defense, does this reduction get applied first, before resistances, armor etc? And does it stack with a potential source of “X% Reduced target’s damage” like War Cry for example?

I’m not sure. We’ve being doing similar tests recently and discovered that Phys Res works before Armor Armor vs Phys res - #99 by tqFan which lead to a change in Game’s Guide here Grim Dawn - Crate Entertainment Maybe it’s worth checking out although I’m personally a bit burnt out from the mentioned test and many others and don’t feel like hitting dummy atm I can give advice how to do it though / mod the game / what program’s to use to make it easier.

@grey-maybe

So after a couple of tests, here is the correct order:

1. % total damage reduction
2. Fumbles/Impaired Aim
3. DA evasion
4. Evasion/Deflect
5. Low OA damage penalty
6. Block
7. Racial Reduction
8. Resistances
9. Armor
10. Limited Absorb (i.e. Crab)
11. % absorb
12. Flat absorb (i.e Ascension)
13. Health

[edit] Wait, I didn’t notice OA penalty is actually on the list above so I guess you have your answer

[CaiusMisus]

Thanks for the list. So both the “X% reduced target’s damage” and the low OA penalty get applied to the incoming damage. Good to know.

So in a simple example, I assume that 100 incoming damage with “20% reduced target’s damage” would first get reduced to 80. And then the maximum DA penalty of 14.29% would get applied, making it about 68.5 damage before we even get to the next layers of defense.

So the only unknown remains, whether the maximum reduction from DA is 14.29% or 20%. There is really not much info about this out there, only the 2 sources I’ve found, which claim different numbers, hence why I asked about this in the first place.

[Ceno]

The Game Guide is correct at 70%. Source: Game files:

[CaiusMisus]

@Ceno

The Game Guide is correct at 70%. Source: Game files:

Thanks for confirming.

So the number on the wiki is wrong. Wonder how it originally got there. The only thing that I can think of is back when they changed DA to only reduce the chance of being hit to 60% tops. Could be that the number for the threshold got changed and the wiki just didn’t get updated. Because I doubt somebody would put a wrong number there deliberately. But I’m just speculating…

Either way, consider this closed and once again, thanks to both of you.

[Ceno]

@CaiusMisus

Because I doubt somebody would put a wrong number there deliberately.

I doubt it too, but it’s always been 70% for as long as I can remember. At least back as far as 2015/2016.

My guess is that it’s one of those things that someone said once, and then some else repeated it, and then someone else repeated that repetition…and so what started as hearsay for what the value was got added to the wiki as fact.