Want to get Grim Dawn but...

Grim Dawn General Discussion
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I’d like to understand the differences between my traditional favorite ARPG series, Diablo II & III, and this game.

First off, can anyone recommend any good videos, reviews, or write-ups that goes into depth about what Grim Dawn is (more recently since all the changes), and how it compares to other popular ARPGs? I do not like Path of Exile at all, and I hope this is more like my ultimate favorite, Diablo II.

The primary features I’m most curious about are:

  1. How good is the replayability? Is there many random enemies, levels, challenges, or anything like Diablo 3’s rift/greater rift system that has randomized challenges? If not, what do you do instead as you reach greater power (end game).

  2. Also related to replayability, but are there many truly viable builds for max difficulties for each class? How is the character customization and build depth? Currently, I hate how Diablo 3 has a few sets per each class, and you’re funneled into playing with those sets to reach higher difficulties, with little variations to this set builds.

Legacy of Nightmares was a brilliant idea, and Blizzard wasted it by nerfing it too greatly, and thus limited the potential of this set for most classes. I’m hoping Grim Dawn has similar open ended sets, that allow you to have build freedom, and effectiveness.

  1. Is there more or less monsters in this compared to Diablo 3? How does this handle “champion packs” and “elite” monsters? I’m hoping it’s either like Diablo II, or better; compared to Diablo 3 with glowing monsters with awful traits, such as purple rotating lazor beams spawning from them.

  2. I plan to mainly play a mage like character, and a paladin; is there many diverse abilities to use for these kinds of characters? Besides the typical fire, frost, and lighting spells (which I’m sure this game has), is there anything else interesting?

  3. Is gold a significant feature of the game? I don’t like how PoE removes this their game, and prefer the Diablo 2/3 system of currency. One of the few good things D3: RoS did do right, is make gold have important value throughout the game, and I hope Grim Dawn does the same.

If anyone could touch on these 5 primary topics, I would really appreciate it greatly. Thanks in advance for the help!

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There’s no randomized areas. Replayability is entirely from the VAST array of viable builds the game offers. My preferred example, Albrecht’s Aether Ray, has eight different ways to use one ability, and multiple possible class combinations to use them in. You can use one ability every way possible, or use every ability, or both! Mages have multiple good options. Paladin… We have good melee, and good shield builds, if that’s what you meant…Even melee range magery, with Callidor’s Tempest builds. Monsters, that’s debatable. Some of the end-end game bosses are insane, barely any builds beat them at all, much less reliably. Heroes are well made and unique IMO.
Other than all that… I think the last big pluses to note are Monster Infrequents, and manual dodging. If you want to, you can manually dodge almost every attack in the game. And on the downsides, for some…It’s a single player game. Multiplayer iis not huge, and is a little buggy. Trading is small. You’ll mostly be playing alone, self found gear only. Personally I enjoy that, but… Some do not. And it is slower than D3, which again I prefer, but…

1 Like
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That’s great to hear, because I’m primarily a self-found player, and have been ever since Diablo I. The option for some potential co-op is nice if my best friend ends up getting the game as well.

What I meant by a Paladin or Templar class, is a knight in heavy armor, able to use any assortment of weapons (not necessarily one-handers and a shield only), and able to use magic to buff, heal yourself or others, and destroy demons and undead effectively.

Any info you could relate about endgame though? Is there anything like rifts/great rifts from Diablo? If not, do you just explore the same areas? I did see there was a “Crucible” mode dlc that you can do to gain power and loot though - not sure how good that is?

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There are rogue-like challenge dungeons for you and nemesis spawns. Perhaps the Crucible. But no mapping system.
Grim Dawn addresses replayability in a different way, by actually having build diversity.

Also related to replayability, but are there many truly viable builds for max difficulties for each class?

If by viable you mean just beating ultimate there might be half dozen to dozen or more for each class. If you want crucible gladiator like people like it, there might be at least 1-2 for each class.

Legacy of Nightmares was a brilliant idea, and Blizzard wasted it by nerfing it too greatly, and thus limited the potential of this set for most classes. I’m hoping Grim Dawn has similar open ended sets, that allow you to have build freedom, and effectiveness.

Class sets are unfortunately there and even more of them coming, sometimes they are best in slot, other times not.

  1. Is there more or less monsters in this compared to Diablo 3? How does this handle “champion packs” and “elite” monsters? I’m hoping it’s either like Diablo II, or better; compared to Diablo 3 with glowing monsters with awful traits, such as purple rotating lazor beams spawning from them.

Not sure what you want to see there but champions may come in packs of 3-4. There are no BS mechanics around them, or these were altered/removed over time.

  1. I plan to mainly play a mage like character, and a paladin; is there many diverse abilities to use for these kinds of characters? Besides the typical fire, frost, and lighting spells (which I’m sure this game has), is there anything else interesting?

That depends on what you want from your mage. First thing you should know though is that glass cannon casters are punished. You cannot avoid getting in melee every now and then with most nasty mobs and have to think about how to sustain that. Caster tank variety is pretty popular because of this.

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Just get the game. It’s perhaps not what you expect in that paladin and mage classes doesn’t really exist because all GD classes are much more detailed than that. The replayability is in all of the viable class combinations - don’t worry there are MANY…

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Your description fits basically every character except for the healing. Only some classes have built in heals. And technically, our demons are Chthonian Voidspawn. XD.

Endgame is really just, see how far you can push your character, either iin the three ultra hard fights, or in Crucible… And then go make another character and do it again. The builds ARE the endgame. There are very few things that straight up don’t work at all. Some things are better than others, but very few actively fail to work entirely.

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Thanks for the info guys. So, I ended up getting it, and I feel like I’m playing what I was hoping Diablo 3 would be originally. It really does feel like a modern Diablo II, which is a huge compliment - even the sound fx and music are reminiscent of it. I’m happy I bought it at full price on GOG, because I know it will help the devs more.

As for magic and ranged classes, aren’t there skills though that can slow, trap, freeze enemies, or skills that allow you to dodge, teleport etc away from them?

As for personal healing, I meant like holy type skills holy auras, blessings, and spells that you can use to heal and protect yourself and others? I would love to resurrect my Diablo II Paladin again, even if it’s not exact. Or is everything magical oriented in this purely from nature or the occult?

I’m excited for the Necromancer coming to Grim Dawn, but I hope for a true Templar/Paladin/Crusader class in the future.

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Inquisitor might have a few holy seeming things. There are MANY enemy debuffs…Not many work on bosses though. Best freeze is in Arcanist, Olexra’s Flash Freeze. Blade Trap is in Nightblade. Various slows exist, even in devotions.

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Yea, the Inquisitor combined with the Soldier may just be what I’m looking for. Another cool class could be something like a Cleric or Bishop, and could be the combo of the Inquisitor with the Archanist, or Druid? I’m not sure the main differences between the classes are yet.

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There are no movement skills, which is why glass cannon isn’t safe. Only gap closers - you need a monster target to teleport. Some mobs have gap closers in turn.

Crowd control is mainly for trash. There are very few things that affect bosses even in the slightest, and Crate hates them, so their future is uncertain.

There are multiple layers of damage mitigation however from armor and direct damage absorption to what can be confused with CC, like chance to fumble attacks.

Group healing is a thing for occultist and shaman with skills like blood of Dreeg and Wendigo totem, not very templarish. Mogdrogen’s pact is modest extra aid. Occultist also has raven which is basically a lazy flying wendigo. Nightblades can self-heal with pneumatic burst. Healing rain from tree of life devotion affects the group and is no worse than BoD or wendigo on its own.

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From a purely mechanical standpoint the Shaman comes closest to the Paladin playstyle with AoE auras, debuffs, healing and lots of smiting, except there’s very little of the traditional “holy warrior” vibe going on there. The Shaman IS a sort-of cleric though, specifically of the primal gods and Ultos (god of the sky). Grim Dawn is rather progressive when it comes to deities/religion and the whole “good vs evil” thing (everything is basically morally grey).
The “holy warrior” figure can be of any class lore-wise, really. Lore tells us that there are also cruel and sadistic Inquisitors, for example.

If you just want the playstyle then consider picking Shaman as your base class, otherwise you’ll want to use Soldier as your base class (good ol’ tough melee character archetype) and then slowly add elemental/fire/healing and support-themed skills so you end up with something paladin-ish.
Note that Cairn (the world Grim Dawn is set in) does have a god of light (Empyrion), but there’s no “holy” or “light” damage - there’s only lightning and fire. One can even argue that aether is actually Grim Dawn’s version of a (possibly corrupted) holy damage, since it’s the main damage type of the so-called servants of the gods.

Since you’re a fellow D2 fan, here’s some tidbits you might consider interesting:

-Character building-wise, Grim Dawn allows you to draw skills from a much more complex (and amazing) skill pool - levels (and, as an extension, masteries) are only one of these skill sources. Others include components (basically socketable items like D2’s runes, except these can come with unique skills), devotions (basically an entirely different skill tree that is universal to all classes), and, of course, gear (many have unique skills).
Not only that, but the interaction between these skills is important. Devotions skills are basically procs which you assign to other skills, for example, allowing you to power up mastery skills or component skills.

-Like skills above, you also have multiple sources of stats - levels, components, gear, augments, devotions and consumables. Basically, Grim Dawn gives your character the potential to grow even while not gaining levels.
Components are an especially important source of stats at early levels because they’re very accessible (you can buy pieces of them from NPC stores).

-Grim Dawn has a much more robust item system than most other ARPGs. While the Legendary is generally the strongest item type, all enchanted items are potentially useful - even yellow ones, and especially the greens, which can be legit end-game pieces (D2’s equivalent are purples and golds). This allows you to hit survivability/damage breakpoints easier with your character so you can focus on improving your build, as well as making NPC stores a viable (and valuable) source of end-game items.
Playing the game also allows you to unlock faction gear, which act as a sort of catch-all option for people with extraordinary bad luck at finding gear. Many faction gear are the equivalent of powerful greens.

-The game has many useful and powerful consumables which can very easily change the course of a bad fight. People tend to disregard the existence of consumables, which is shame really, but since you’re new I’d like to point this out so you take not and don’t fall into the same trap. Play games like D2 a lot and you tend to forget that there are other potentially useful consumables in an ARPG.
You can get consumables from certain NPC stores, crafting and faction vendors.

-Crowd control is mainly for mobs, against bosses you’ll need to fall back to defensive options (all characters have access to these, from straight up stat boosts to absorption/immunity skills to life leech/healing/massive regen).

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^ Yellows stop being good by Elite in pretty much all my playthroughs, usually earlier. Greens are always good with good enough rolls though.

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There are always exceptions to everything. A Subjugator’s Ring of Fortitude/Psyche/Potency is not something you just casually throw away, for example. I’m sure many builds have an equivalent, like how a Prismatic Ring of Meditation would be just dandy on many energy-starved builds.
Sure, you’ll probably get your perfect Subjugator’s Bloodsworn Signet of the Wild someday… if you pray hard enough, I suppose.

Until then, whatever works.

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here I have two equal (in the first iteration) rings with ~ 80% resist and ~ 110 OA on both

purging can be bought from vendor without problem. Incorruptible was a single-time drop and I consider myself lucky having seen it dropping in game.

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Once vanilla starts to lose its appeal, mods and Crate-supplied mod tools exist. Modders have created about 30 additional masteries and alternative play modes (including randomized maps).

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@Tyr Thanks for the advice and information, I really appreciate it.

Does anyone know a good resource where I can plan my character, and see all the potential skills (including skills linked through gear, and other sources, not just standard class ones)?

I would like to obtain some kind of lighting blasts and chain lighting for my character eventually, but I’m not sure if those spells are even in the game? I’m aware the Druid is melee oriented lightning skills, but I’d like to create a Cleric with a combination of lighting powers, similar to what the Lighting Sorceress had in Diablo 2.

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Grimtools might help you out.

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Perhaps you can make a lightning elementalist caster tank http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47324 Get ToL and healing rain and pretend you are a holy healer :). Or do the same with melee savagery, though that is not exactly chain lightning. Or primal strike, though that works better with ranged weapons http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36295

Druids aren’t very good in melee. They can do it, but elementalists, warders and even conjurers can better.