Warder on Bleeding dmg - feral hunger and Zolhan's technique

[system]

I am currently playing a bleeding warder build (and i am really satisfied with it).

But 1 Question came up in my mind which i want answered:

As said i focus on bleeding dmg (Feral hunger=max; Upheaval= max) but i put 1 point in zolhan’s technique and 1 Point in Markovian’s Advantage and let em scale with + skills. The main reason i did this is because of the debuffs they apply. (reduced DA and reduced attackspeed).

However. I wonder if those 2 abilities could potentially decrease the feral hunger procs i get. If thats the case i would drop them.

Thanks in advance!
Genitor

[Guichenocrate]

By my understanding, the short answer is no, it will not reduce your chances of landing a fearl hunger, unless your reach more than 100% of total weapon skill pool chances - where everything might be scaled down. But practically I am not even sure it is achievable for two handers.

if you reach 100%, you just you would not land any normal hits. Any hit would be either FH, or MA or ZT, etc…

If you are at 70% WPS, hits would have 30%chance to be a normal hit, and 30%chance to be FH, 20%chance to be MA and 20%chance to be ZT etc…

Hope it is clear enough

[Superfluff]

I am currently playing a bleeding warder build (and i am really satisfied with it).

But 1 Question came up in my mind which i want answered:

As said i focus on bleeding dmg (Feral hunger=max; Upheaval= max) but i put 1 point in zolhan’s technique and 1 Point in Markovian’s Advantage and let em scale with + skills. The main reason i did this is because of the debuffs they apply. (reduced DA and reduced attackspeed).

However. I wonder if those 2 abilities could potentially decrease the feral hunger procs i get. If thats the case i would drop them.

Thanks in advance!
Genitor

No, you are fine. ZT and Feral hunger only interfere with Upheval. If you want Upheval don’t get both ZT and Feral. Just Take Feral and Upheval for that.

[system]

Thanks Guichenocrate!

No, you are fine. ZT and Feral hunger only interfere with Upheval. If you want Upheval don’t get both ZT and Feral. Just Take Feral and Upheval for that.

I am pretty sure that Upheaval is not a replacer but an additional hit. One can hit a critical Feral hunger which leads to an upheaval. Think i even saw this happen several times.

Can someone confirm this?

[Superfluff]

:)What i wrote in another thread about this and confirmed by the build in the link Jajaja’s physical Savagery Warder.

The downside of upheaval is that procs cant proc it, so feral hunger or zolhans crits do not proc upheaval and therefore do not proc blind fury. therefore we do not get zolhans at all, we still get feral hunger for the big lifesteal. Upheaval only needs 1 point to get most of its dmg, and since we are mainly needing it to trigger blind fury, its not necessary to max.

Question about on crit procs

Try it on upheval, it’s a massive adavantage. There aren’t many ways to boast two devotion procs on autoattack skills. WPS like Zollhan’s are unreliable in doing this. It’s a chance to proc on a chance to proc skill. So if you have Zollhan’s at 25% and crit chance at 25% your actual chance to proc Blind fury or AM is actually just over 6% agaisnt single targets. That is pretty bad. not to mention you need to invest more skill points to get ZT at 25% while Upheval needs only 1 point

Chance on Upheval is same as your crit chance. If you have 25% crit change then you have 25% chance to do Upheval and automatically proc Blind fury

Build http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41810

Case in point don’t get both Zt and Feral hunger if you bind blind fury to upheval (which you should do)

[Guurzak]

Note that Upheaval chance equals crit chance only if you have zero other WPS. Upheaval isn’t 100% chance on crit, it’s 100% chance to be used which just means 100 points in the pool.

So if you have Feral Hunger at 20% and you roll a crit, Upheaval’s likelihood is 100/120 = 83%.

[Superfluff]

Note that Upheaval chance equals crit chance only if you have zero other WPS. Upheaval isn’t 100% chance on crit, it’s 100% chance to be used which just means 100 points in the pool.

So if you have Feral Hunger at 20% and you roll a crit, Upheaval’s likelihood is 100/120 = 83%.

It’s pretty much what Jajaja states but without the math :). My explanation was simplified to justify not taking ZH or putting a proc on it. Blind fury is still worth putting on upheval, or Reckless tempest if lightning build. Just needs to be tried first before all the thorycrafting

[system]

ok thx.

What i understood now:
When i have a 15% chance on Markovians i would have a 87% chance that a critical hit of Markovians does spawn an upheaval whereas a critical hit with savagery (without proc) does spawn upheaval 100% of times.

Doesnt make sence to me but when this is how they programmed it.

What about Markovians Advantage? Same story i guess?
But then one could argue that Markovians Advantage reduces defensive ability => more crits => more upheavals… ^^

[Superfluff]

ok thx.

What i understood now:
When i have a 15% chance on Markovians i would have a 87% chance that a critical hit of Markovians does spawn an upheaval whereas a critical hit with savagery (without proc) does spawn upheaval 100% of times.

Doesnt make sence to me but when this is how they programmed it.

What about Markovians Advantage? Same story i guess?
But then one could argue that Markovians Advantage reduces defensive ability => more crits => more upheavals… ^^

1.Don’t go markovian because i will slow down your dps as it has slow animation.

2. It’s not how it works. It’s not that markovian has 87% to proc upheval. Markovian ZT and FH are procs and CANNOT proc Upheval. So if you chose one proc, say Feral hunger or whichever, having it at 20% change to proc basically have 83% to proc UPheval out of all your crits because ZT markovian etc override Upheval regardless of crit