This.
100%.
Ranged bosses will take upward of half an hour.
Yes it is still viable, and still painfully slow. On the plus side though, it’s the perfect build to multitask with.
Farm crucible and catch up on that book you never finished at the same time. 
i just got the immortal executioner achievement at level 29 using this build, must say it’s stupidly OP lol
thanks for the build, i love it
Thanks for the build! Nice and boring for hc, no heartattacks for me.
This is the first build I followed from a guide without just rolling my own, and it absolutely works as advertised. It’s also one of the most interesting builds to me since it’s such a pure concept focusing so heavily on retaliation/reflection mechanics which are easily overlooked and achieves the goal it set out to do. That’s a very impressive achievement to me.
One interesting thing to note about retaliation damage modifiers is that many of them often have healthy boosts to all types of retaliation damage. As a result my current build is dealing ~13k total retaliation damage but from a variety of sources (acid, piercing, lightning, etc). It’s not as big of a problem to deal such an eclectic variety of damage types when retaliation is concerned since many modifiers often boost them all (of course with some exceptions, but it’s easier to get away without focusing on just one or two damage types).
About playing this build though, it is freaking boring to me! It’s so, so, so boring! I thought pet builds were boring, this takes it to a whole new level. I’m wanting to scream at the screen, “just hit me already!” when a boss starts screwing around and using attacks that don’t count as melee while I’m standing next to them. If that’s not a problem for people then the game is really a stroll in the park with this build. I actually kind of get excited the few times my health is dropping because of a lot of ranged characters or getting swarmed by nemesis on crucible or something like that where I have to stop and actually pay attention since most of the time I can just idle away. I’m not sure it’s such a good build for farming for people who have no great collection of gear just yet since it’s so slow unless you’re willing to accept doing it at a fraction of the speed (though at a massive, massive reduction to risk).
Quite soon after taking this build quite far, I wanted to try one that focuses more on “on hit” procs instead of retaliation, since I think that would be a bit faster if we could pull it off and have enough “on hit” procs going off. This way only one enemy would have to land a hit for a proc to go off that does aoe to everything around us or for a ranged proc to hit back a ranged enemy, e.g., instead of waiting for each and every enemy to land a hit or two for reflect/retaliation to individually do its work.
The boredom happens only if you want to go pure retaliation just for the sake of the concept. But there are ways to make both retaliation/offensive builds. Sure they will be less tanky but they don’t need to be because you don’t need to just stand there and take hits. Another advantage is that ranged mobs or bosses are no longer a nuissance with this in mind.
Just a matter of changing perspective. If you put all your eggs in one basket you will get huge retaliation numbers but skip 1/3 of the games content or try to compensate with reflect damage which is not something to rely on but something to complement a build.
Very true and that’s one of the reasons I find this build so interesting. Since it’s so pure and works out surprisingly well, it highlights a mechanic in the game that I never paid much attention towards and makes retaliation and reflect something I now pay at least a bit more attention in all builds I try. It becomes a valuable property for both defense and offense and I now take damage retaliation and reflect more seriously.
The one thing I haven’t achieved with the pure version of this build is true invincibility in all of the game’s regular content (let alone crucible), probably due to gear (and I haven’t been able to get close to capping resists yet on ultimate when searching so hard for retaliation gear). I’ve gotten close to invincibility with this build, but there are exceptional times where I have to pay attention and put down a totem or something, making it so I can’t quite idle all the way. If I could totally idle with this build and it was completely unkillable, I’d like it more since I could truly just make coffee or something and come back and find everything dead. Since I can’t quite do that (yet?) without paying half-attention, it’s so, so boring in the purest form.
In general one of the reasons I love build guides like these is when they manage to pull something off that I thought was worthless. I never would have expected retaliation/reflect to be potentially so powerful that it could serve as a pure damage output source and highlighting to me the value of mitigating how much damage we’re receiving at once when things are dropping dead around us. So even though I find the pure version so, so boring, I really think this build deserves the spotlight for successfully showcasing something I never would have considered otherwise.
maybe empowered sentinel’s seal for a ring?, only problem(i think) is its chance to slow…
kudos on this build… was a tough grind, but when u start having base items as your main sources of retaliation, all you have to worry about is upgrading your armor as you progress and keeping your resists high; very low maintenance.
Hard thing with HC builds is that the player has to get used to mechanics first, so they can get used to it before pushing through. Even as my first character, this is just steam rolling through even when I’m playing blindly (as everything is a first for me).
Fantastic guide mate, appreciate the time and effort you’ve put in! Loving the build so far, only level 50 but I’m having a great time.
Something I’d change when you are leveling though is putting a few points into Falcon for the skill Falcon swoop which you can attach to devouring swarm, that skill is amazing for fast clearing and leveling and is still powerful for me in Elite.
Tortoise shell feels a bit redundant as I don’t get down to 40% hp much, in fact I haven’t even had it proc yet! Since the aim is to get hit a lot, I specced into Behemoth the 3 pts to get Giants Blood which is a perfect skill for this build. Combining that with Dryads keeps you healed constantly. You can also get the whole Obelisk if you spec out of the Targo, which imo is worth it for the obelisk skill.
Just a couple of observations which some people may have mentioned on the previous 50 pages, but most importantly, I’m loving the build! Cheers for the inspiration!
Wow, this build rocks!
Outstanding survivability and very flexible. I’m breezing through Elite with 2/3 retaliation and 1/3 DD (mainly via item-granted skills and on hit procs). With all important resists at 60-80 I haven’t even seen Menhir’s Will proc yet.
You will not see it in Ultimate too :). The only time my MH appeared was when I tried to kill avatar of Mod’. In fact, i keep only 10 pts in MH
So I have a slightly different build: Warder with 25% damage converted to health about to hit level 50. I have only minimal reflection right now but I was thinking of incorporating it when I found this thread. I have a high attack speed and a two handed weapon which allows me to use Menhir’s Will together with Ghoulish Hunger as a massive circuit breaker. It’s my first time through the game and if I’m a little ahead level wise its because I’m geared to get 33% extra experience. My main question is:
Does reflected damage trigger the % damage converted to health ability? Does the creature deal the % reflected damage Directly to itself- or do you deal back to them when you receive it? I couldn’t find the answer to this in any thread.
If you do get %health from reflected damage then it makes perfect sense to incorporate ideas from this page and I’ll become a lot more stable as a tank. The entire game I’ve been plowing through mobs in record time with sub par equipment (mainly only using it if it gives extra experience and still dealing 5k+ dps) with a health bar that’s stayed near the top the entire time aside from boss fights. I’m starting to have to adjust a little past Fort Ikon since my health bar is now almost hitting the bottom right before bouncing back to full any time I hit a mob fight with more than one hero unit.
Granted a lot of this would improve if I used better equipment, but I want to keep the 33% exp bonus and realized that if I could get a health conversion off of reflected damage then that would keep my exp/damage conversion build viable for a while longer. Also if it worked that way then it would be a nice way for others to pad their reflective builds without having to do anything else.
@prism falcon: don’t think so; have a healthy mix of retal/reflect on my Warder ~50 atm. if this was the case i would have band wagon’d it and would never have to pop a single potion.
% damage converted to health usually procs after direct damage is done (attack or spell dmg) since reflect is indirect damage that stat will not be proc’ing
This link essentially shows where I want to go by the end game.
http://grimcalc.com/build/G58kunY
If anyone has other suggestions then I would be interested.
Gasconron- Thanks. If that’s the case then its a pity. I was hoping for a nice easy build on my first play through, my computer can’t quite handle the game and it sometimes freezes for a second or two during graphic intensive scenes like mob fights.
I wanted to try this out as a Commando since Demolitionist also has retaliation support skills, and I had a bunch of random gear laying around for it. Well… I didn’t really like the pure retaliation route so I ended up making a hybrid of sorts.
It’s more of a block retaliation build now, using procs like Targo’s, Trample, and some other “when hit” procs. I stacked as much block chance as I could with the gear available and focus on physical/fire damage. It’s been working out pretty well. A good mix of tanky and offense. I might write up a quick guide on it for those interested. There aren’t too many Commando guides in the compendium thread. 
But anyways, thanks to Squib for writing this guide. I appreciate all the work you put into it.
how do you get the better rolls on the green vendor items?? is it lvl? i dont get it lol
i meant the faction greens in my last post im on elite hardcore and the green faction items from revered page have lower stats do they get better in ultimate or is it lvl based?
If you are buying revered level faction items getting better rolls means restarting the session ,exit main menu and start game again, until you get good stats on them.
Like on kymon’s chosen Chestguard you want a roll with at least over 300 pierce retaliation and 5% phys resist. For example. You re-roll the session ti’ll you get that.
thanks man appreciate it!