When are shields worth it?

Imo Overguard is rarely worth more than 7th rank, and Shield Training is a one-pointer. Those skills were overnerfed because of Crate’s overreaction to warlords after SR launch.

Wow. And I thought shield builds were awful before.
I tested my 1.0.6 blocker in the new build. He’s off to the glue factory…
I guess I missed the golden age of 3 weeks.
sigh…oh well.

Shields are fantastic. You guys need to calm down with the whining.

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Next they might start saying good acid gun builds do not exist. Oh wait… :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Are. You mean WERE. Soldier

Counter Strike: reduced % Retaliation Damage Added to Attack scaling with rank to 15% by rank 16, 20% by max ultimate rank

Field Command: reduced % Armor scaling at ranks 9+ to 25% by rank 12, 30% by max ultimate rank

Overguard: increased Cooldown to 24s. Reduced % Shield Recovery Time scaling with rank to 35% by rank 12, 45% by max ultimate rank. % Reduced Stun Duration now scales with rank to 50% by rank 12, 60% by max ultimate rank. Increased % Health Regeneration scaling with rank to 135% by rank 12, 220% by max ultimate rank.

Markovian’s Defense: increased Cooldown Reduction to -9.5s. Added -10% Shield Recovery Time and a -18% Total Retaliation damage modifier.

Shield Training: reduced % Shield Recovery Time and % Block Chance scaling with rank to 12% by rank 10, 24% by max ultimate rank

I’m literally giving you video evidence demonstrating how strong shields can be if built right.

In the video above, I literally aggro’d every enemy in every boss chunk from SR 75 - 80, where the game crashed.

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Don’t bother, mate. The evidence means nothing here lol


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Not all shields are built equal. Most are glorified off hands at best.

I want you to make build around Super Meat boy. And that’s not even the worst shield. Just few that are decent. Skyreach for example have nice stats.

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We’re polity disagreeing.
I posted the patch notes showing what it WAS.

If no one ever challenges the entourage echo chamber, forums like this fossilize with the same opinion.

When it comes to ARPGs, GD is at the bottom of the list when it comes to respectable shied builds. My Titan Quest conqueror was alot of fun to play. In GD, it’s like please don’t make this char suck more than it already does, than the nerf hammer comes flying in. Not asking for a D2 Hammerdin.

Why even introduce a new and exciting shield class (Warlord) just to starve it in the crib with an immediate follow-up nerf patch? Solider shield was better if no Oathkeeper ever came out at all. It was a total and clear reversal of trajectory by any measure. The Warder I had is dogfood. Kind of bait and switch.

Like the Fermi Paradox, If S&B builds are great, where are they? Other than an ancient vanilla Warder thread in the builds-guide, they’re missing in action. Strange, right?

New shield build coming…

EDIT: s/^exiting/exciting/g

That’s like saying you want to build an auto attacking build using an off-hand.

Certain itemization dictates certain archetypes.

Sure, there are exceptions (e.g. aegis), but they are exactly that - exceptions

Yes but good build around shield is exception from the rule and not the rule.

It’s like creating decent acid ranged build. Oh wait, not this example again. :smile:


I don’t think it’s an exception. I think we crafters are just hyperfocused on speed clears.

Surely if I use a shield, I should expect my DPS to fall, no?

Just because I’m doing an 8min clear instead of 6, doesn’t mean that the build is bad.

If you’re going to make such extreme claims, at least consider the complete picture…From the very same changelog you insisted upon using to make your flawed analysis:

Nevermind all the Retaliation changes that were also made.

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While we are on this topic, Z, is there a reason why on-block procs are so inconsistent, even with 100% recovery?

Would be nice if crate could give them a slight bump.

I actually complained about it but not in the sense of the nerfs being uncalled for. Warlords were OP. We could literally never RIP in hardcore with those stats. Make a shield tank and you can AFK Callagarda and other celestials. Calla could be easily killed in under 1.5-2 min.

If you really want to make a shield tank today, you can still do it! But it’s just going to take more effort and the playstyle will be more active. Not to say that you can’t tank Calla with a shield anymore, just not as OP as used to be.

I havent played warlord so i can’t really give an opinion on that. Some constellations have been added that help shield builds next to targo the builder and obelisk, but in what i have been doing only retaliation type of builds kinda worked with shields. In all other cases making something dual wield or 2 handed simply worked out better. They don’t have to buff shields but i would like to see a little wider use of them, i mean getting 70% recovery for your shield is just nuts. Other than that i would like it to have a permanent damage reduction so that we could have some casters for example with a shield and be competitive.

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But there are. Aegis and voidsoul comes to mind.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it was +1% chance and +3% (or +8%?) recovery, right? Compared to -10% recovery on Overguard and about -10-15% chance and recovery to be viably gotten from Shield Training. So not exactly a Robin Hood move. More like take from the rich, give to the poor but keep 95% to yourself. With “the rich” having already been bankrupted by a dozen other nerfs.

There’s also the Absolution nerf which basically took 70% of its power.

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Maybe I said this before, but I really think the most reasonable way to improve shields atm is:
Smoothen it out. You only get to sense an improvement in survivability if you go FULL shield.
Whereas I think, if I simply put on a shield and DO NOT go full with it, I also should be able to sense a kind of improvement.

ya1. 100% agree.

klasperstanze: You only get to sense an improvement in survivability if you go FULL shield

That was the point I was making when I first posted here.
But going FULL shield is like putting a a $3,000 home theater in a 2006 Ford Focus your folks got you to commute to college. DPS nodes are cheap. The trade-off isn’t worth it imo. Not saying it can’t be done though.

Contragor We could literally never RIP in hardcore with those stats.

We. But who is we? Oh, I get there are a few min-maxers here that can and will push the limits. What about the other 95%? A nerf this massive really seems like an appeasement to the select verbal minority. I have never seen shields be OP. The opposite. I noticed they were junk when I started in alpha. Like I said above, looks like I missed the brief Golden Age.

Sheld-scale is awful. Meaning you need more points (which you get by later levels) to do anything with it. And amazing crafts to push it. What good is 20% chance, 15% recovery at level 40? Meanwhile taking up the slot of a dual wield to just melt mobs/bosses with 100% more WPS.
If you got a video of this OP Warlord pulling off this achievement in just pickup gear, post it up. Love to see it. I was not aware this situation is as dire as you say.

I do understand it’s a hard balance. I’m not here to incite discontent and you and a couple others are projecting a unified front to manage that. Not saying I could do any better and I have loads of respect.

Game mechanics are complicated. They’re supposed to be. But how shields perform in the dmg mitigation hierarchy seems like a bad idea that has continued to ride on inertia or low priority for review.

I would be fine with a total top-tier shield nerf if the buy-in to just use the damn thing wasn’t so high. You have 85% resistances but a shield that has a 1/3 chance to block 600 dmg every second with crit builds outputting MILLIONS. LOL. The contrast is almost insulting. But then the multiplicative mechanics come into play making that dinky shield a OP beast fostering forum Nerf-demand posts under very distinct circumstances [equipment], ruining it for casuals. Not much middle ground.

  1. you are cherry-picking aspects of the opposing argument to refute.
  2. Your argument begs the question:
  1. Putting shields third in the order of defence is bad
  2. Shields fall third in the order of defence
  3. Shields are bad.

How/why is being third in the order of defence bad? Especially when shields can consistently mitigate damage values in the thousands?

A classic example of a valid, but unsound argument.

The false premise here being that a crit build outputting DPS in the millions requires less of an investment than a shield-based build needs to shine.

So please.

Get your argument together, mate.


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