[Warder] Pure RETALIATION, REFLECT, INVINCIBLE, 100k+ DAMAGE, Hardcore Ultimate 100% Done (SF Gear)

[Superfluff]

Thanks. I’m following this build pretty well, or at least I think so. Even with 15K health, maxed Totem just doesn’t heal enough when I’m getting pounded on all sides by multiple heroes and bosses. Like I said, Overguard up or running away until it comes back up.

Also of note is that I’m nowhere near BiS items. This is the first char I’ve gotten to Ultimate and am trying to push this through as a very safe farming character.

(I’m also using the mod MRGA, which pretty much removes the need for reflect, and that’s a huge relief because in Elite before I got it, it took several minutes to do anything with ranged trash mobs. Trash mobs.)

Well if you use that mod it pretty much negates all the neat tricks from the build I linked you to. With that mod you will be fine. You just need the gear.

[umbral]

Wouldn’t Emboldening roar give you +70% more retaliation damage ?

[Superfluff]

Wouldn’t Emboldening roar give you +70% more retaliation damage ?

It does do that but,

End game 70% retaliation damage is a 0.7% increase in retaliation damage (dedicated retaliators will have over 1000% retaliation damage).

Not worth it for the number of skill points you need to dump in it.

Also, keeping Briathorn alive with a Non dedicated pet build won’t happen in ultimate/crucible, even if you had the points for both briarthorn and emblodening roar. Maybe with the expansion giving more skillpoints this will be possible but right now not really.

[umbral]

Can this be done for a pet like Briarthorn instead of the player ?
Something like this : http://grimcalc.com/build/1006-5hZTPJ ?

[umbral]

Can this be done for a pet like Briarthorn instead of the player ?
Something like this : http://grimcalc.com/build/1006-5hZTPJ ?

Anyone can give some feedback ?
Thanks.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Why are you asking about half a build? GrimCalc is only up to L42.

Anyway, I would think that while Briarthorn does have retalitation damage I don’t know whether it would gain any more from gear. If Superfluff’s calculations are right (sorry, math my worst subject so not doubting you) then Briarthorn would only add .5% retaliation and maybe another .5% from the all damage. So that’s a max 1% gain? If right, is it worth it?

[Chthon]

The boredom happens only if you want to go pure retaliation just for the sake of the concept. But there are ways to make both retaliation/offensive builds. Sure they will be less tanky but they don’t need to be because you don’t need to just stand there and take hits. Another advantage is that ranged mobs or bosses are no longer a nuissance with this in mind.

Just a matter of changing perspective. If you put all your eggs in one basket you will get huge retaliation numbers but skip 1/3 of the games content or try to compensate with reflect damage which is not something to rely on but something to complement a build.

Hmm, a hybrid retaliation build eh? Sounds interesting

[Omniscient]

I’d be very interested in a hybrid retaliator. Using the original build from this thread as a base, I think Physical and either Internal Trauma or Bleed would be okay. I’ve messed around with grimcalc a bit and with +skills, it should be viable. Bleed seems easier, with some good devotions ready and waiting. Falcon, Assassin’s Blade, Bat, and Fox all provide some bonuses that are easy-ish to get. Though at the cost of some health, sadly.

I’ve also thought about removing Wolverine- by removing it, you could put a point in Chaos Crossroads and Ascendant Crossroads, and you would be all set with 3 points to get into Huntress. If you free up points from elsewhere(such as two points in Scales) you can get Rend, and with more points you can complete it.

I’m not sure on skills, but the best so far seems to be Cadence with Fighting Form and Deadly Momentum. Everything else seems to just give too little bleed damage to be worth it. Though if anyone else with more experience would like to pitch in, that would be great.

[system]

I’m very new to this build and I’ve only just reached level 29 but I have some tips for the early game to share:

• If you have access to Blood of Ch’thon, make the Corruption relic! It has decent poison retaliation but even better is the skill which procs on getting hit (obvious synergy). The Corruption skill has a HUGE range and makes it easier to take out ranged mobs as well; it applies a nice poison DOT. You can get the recipe for this relic by completing the Depths of Old Arkovia quest in the Arkovian Undercity.

• Don’t ignore retaliation early on. I’ve managed to collect about 5-6 pieces of gear with retaliation bonuses and it’s already becoming a significant part of my damage. Enemies are getting hit for over 1500 damage, plus a little bit of DOT retaliation.

• The Chipped Claw and Serrated Shell both offer some pretty decent active skills, especially the Serrated Shell. The Shell is also noteworthy because it provides piercing retaliation and a bonus to retaliation damage.

Great guide so far, this build is working out very well! Hope these tips help.

[Superfluff]

Hmm, a hybrid retaliation build eh? Sounds interesting

Dawnbreaker was custom made for hybrid retaliation. All the lightning damage novas, lightning proc, % lighting damage, Stormcaller Pact + skills (people just go straight Menhir’s Bulwark).

I made one. Just tried crucible Gladiator this morning and stopped at 100th wave to unlock the checkpoint. This evening I’ll see how it goes 130-150. So far so good.

Pierce/Phys retaliator is also something i’d like to make and is possible. I just need one more item.

[system]

Say between Death’s Vigil and Kymon’s, which is better for the retaliation build?

[Superfluff]

Say between Death’s Vigil and Kymon’s, which is better for the retaliation build?

Well normally you go for Kymon’s because they have some retaliation items. But you might not use those late game as there are legendaries that may replace those. Augments are also good

You need to think about theyr Augments. If you have the items you want for your final build you can just save choseing sides for later and after you see how you stand with resists you can decide which faction offers the best augments.

[system]

Well normally you go for Kymon’s because they have some retaliation items. But you might not use those late game as there are legendaries that may replace those. Augments are also good

You need to think about theyr Augments. If you have the items you want for your final build you can just save choseing sides for later and after you see how you stand with resists you can decide which faction offers the best augments.

Just looking over what they have and they both seem really meh. I think I’m gonna go with Kymon’s because they have a retaliation augment, but even it is kinda weak.

[matthewfarmery]

Started to play this build as well, got to admit neither faction seems that impressive for this build, the other question will be, worth siding with the outcasts or not? even then they really don’t have anything to offer either.

great build, really enjoying it, took a break from my witchblade, to give this build a try. is this build also viable for the crucible? Not really given that a go yet.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Started to play this build as well, got to admit neither faction seems that impressive for this build, the other question will be, worth siding with the outcasts or not? even then they really don’t have anything to offer either.

great build, really enjoying it, took a break from my witchblade, to give this build a try. is this build also viable for the crucible? Not really given that a go yet.

So, I’ve been making a character off of this build. Just unlocked Ultimate yesterday and Gladiator on Crucible the day before that, obviously not max level but getting closer. I’ve completed Aspirant Crucible all the way through with absolutely no hitches, including the extra spawn, but from wave 100 onwards in Challenger Crucible I have to have Overguard(maxed with +2 points) up or run like heck. Twice now, and the only times ever through all of Veteran and Elite, I’ve died.

Tips for surviving rushes of 10+ heroes plus one or two bosses on most waves?

You probably already do this but, Totem, Heal proc devotions, Warcry, Stonewall Banner (very good), Empyrion’s guidance.

Also some AOE could prove useful. Retaliators have problems with that. I recommend you try Avenger relic sometimes.

you can use this build for inspiration http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47404

Made by a member of the chineese community recently and very well manages to mitigate all issues retaliators have with Reflect and items that give AOE damage.

Avenger is great, Besides flat retaliation values, the proc is very strong, good damage every 1.5 seconds with 20% change to proc when hit. With all the crap being thrown at you in crucible it will certanly proc all the time.

Question answered?

[matthewfarmery]

Yes, probably will try and level the char to max then give crucible a go.

drat dont have the avenger blueprint, so that going to be annoying, oh well, I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

edit, didn’t realise it a witchblade, not a warder, oh well, maybe next time!!

[Omniscient]

If you’re using MRGA or have other ways to make ranged enemies feel the same pain that melees do, then with basic, unempowered Perdition gear, Aspirant Crucible is a breeze and Challenger is a cakewalk up until wave 100. If you’re skilled you could probably make it all the way to 150 on Challenger, but like I’ve been in the situation of: Overguard or running for your life. Totem just doesn’t heal fast enough when getting mobbed by heroes. And your score won’t be great, because several enemies attack really slowly. Benn’Jahr(Chthonic nemesis) is one example, as are the eldritch shamblers.

Also, I’ve had several instances of the AI glitching out and disabling itself, permanently(thus preventing Taunts from working too). Three times on heroes, one time on a trash. Since your damage is exclusively retaliation, especially if the mutator that makes enemies regenerate is active, it could prove to be completely 100% unbeatable because you can’t deal enough damage to get past the enemy’s health regen. Fortunately for all instances, through some clever work I was barely able to kill all glitched heroes and advance, but it took several minutes.

[system]

To be honest I never really viewed this type of character as anything more than a way to easily be able to farm end game gear for other builds.

[Omniscient]

True. Retaliation builds like this don’t have anything that other builds have. You just sit there, take hits, use a couple skills every now and then, and enemies impale themselves on you. There’s little or no tenseness when you’re fully geared. Since writing my post asking for help, I’ve gotten through trading several legendaries that far exceeded what the Perdition gear could give me, and I’ve gone from about 10K per hit to over 40K, enough to seemingly oneshot all enemies except shamblers and heroes/bosses/nemesi, and twoshot or threeshot many heroes.

Last night I did Gladiator from 50 to 110, and only a couple moments were really tense, and that was mostly because of DoT effects stacking up. Anasteria is still really scary though.

[system]

True. Retaliation builds like this don’t have anything that other builds have. You just sit there, take hits, use a couple skills every now and then, and enemies impale themselves on you. There’s little or no tenseness when you’re fully geared. Since writing my post asking for help, I’ve gotten through trading several legendaries that far exceeded what the Perdition gear could give me, and I’ve gone from about 10K per hit to over 40K, enough to seemingly oneshot all enemies except shamblers and heroes/bosses/nemesi, and twoshot or threeshot many heroes.

Last night I did Gladiator from 50 to 110, and only a couple moments were really tense, and that was mostly because of DoT effects stacking up. Anasteria is still really scary though.

Well it isn’t so much that the build doesn’t offer anything new, it’s just that it seems to be extremely easy to gear it up to the point of being able to farm some of the most difficult content, as well as the fact that it has some severe limitations in what it can accomplish… namely, mobs that either hit slowly, or don’t hit you in melee at all. I’ve already gotten a taste of how tedious it is to kill such mobs.

I’m curious though, does EVERY single enemy in the game have an energy pool? I wonder if mana burn would be an effective way to counter non-melee mobs.

I do realize there is a mod that alleviates the non-melee issue but I don’t personally feel like using it is within the spirit of what the devs intended.