Very interesting build.
Im fairly new,and shaky with some of the game mechanics. Will “all damage” modifiers affect reflect or retaliate damage? Also, does pierce % modifiers affect just pierce damage, or also pierce retaliate?
no. nothing but retaliation bonuses add to retaliation damage
€: also, i don’t like OP’s skillbuild too much. very easy to improve.
the build may be great once the good stuff, but at the beginning it is long since not a lot of stuff retaliation. or I missed something!
I decided to give it a go with one of my old warders. I’ve been saving up on a lot of soldier gear.
It’s not that hard to make it survive most things. The problem is that damage is too low. I tried to work in a few damage devotions:
I did kill Ultimate Fabius and Iron Maiden while facetanking them, but even with some extra damage it takes forever.
The big problem is that the devotions you can realistically incorporate in the build that would boost your damage (Reckless Tempest would shine in a lightning based build) in a big way proc on critical hits and with this build you almost never crit any boss or nemesis in Ultimate, so they don’t work. Falcon Swoop procs 15% on attacks but it need -resist to bleeding to work well.
The Judicator’s Signets set of rings work excellent on trash and you get the proc all the time. Then against bosses it’s the same thing. It needs crits and you don’t get any.
Levelling to perdition
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Pick Devouring Swarm, max it right away and get falcon swoop to attach to it
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Equip highest damage weapon possible and anything that has chance to proc on attack
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Then gradually level soldier with Empowered Blade Arc and any other skills of choice till 40
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Respec to retaliate build
Maybe stupid question but:
How do you kill Log with realiation build? I am lvl 70 now and have to kill him - but i remember from my other heros that standing in front of him makes you receive tons of damage.
Can i really try to tank him…? I fear dying.
Forget it, was easier than i thought, boc boss was 5 times harder.
Hey Squib,
really interesting build concept, i will definitely be trying this one out, once i find a little time…
I am a little worried about the gear though.
I haven’t played in HC yet, so i have no gear available for leveling.
I know you talked about the perdition set being really good around level 40, which i would agree considering the set bonuses.
But assuming i dont find that set, do you think that regular gear i find while leveling will be good enough to make retaliation viable? Otherwise i fear, that with only defensive abilities, this might be a little to slow to play…
Thoughts?
Yeah, I remember when Log came out he was much harder. The swarms of spawns and damage that didn’t stop. Glad you were able to drop him. Shar is the harder of the two bosses now, I agree.
I find the perdition set, or at least a couple pieces everytime through the game. I have completed that set from Hetzer himself. There is actually a surprising amount of retaliation gear in the game. I have 2 mules full of blues or better. Green’s also often roll good amounts of retaliation damage as well. Most people don’t notice because they aren’t looking for it. Beyond the gear, the skill sets in soldier, shaman, and devotions allow for quite a bit retaliation damage regardless of gear. You may have to hit and run or use more potions than normal (and obviously if menhir’s will activates get out of there until the cd is done). I can’t guarantee it starting fresh but I think even starting fresh it’s viable. Starting fresh in hardcore I think this build is the best one to pioneer with.
I play now about 60/40 Fire(strike) retaliation and it works well (except fire bosses/heroes).
Can i later on in the game when i hopefully find some gear compensate the single target damage which is missing by procs from items, so that i can go more retaliation and kill bosses with those procs?
Yep, you should have no problem respeccing after finding better gear. It’s not until ultimate do you really have to get serious about survivability.
retaliation walk with mobs attacking remotely?
That’s Reflection you want.
I reflection of lightning and burn, but I feel that remote attackers are not affected?
That’s still retaliation your speaking of, not reflection. Reflection does not have types like lightning or burn as it actually reflects whatever damage the enemy is dealing to you back at them. Reflection will specifically say reflection as oppose to retaliation.
Has anyone made a comparison between a warder and a commando or has enough experience to theoretize? If we boil it down to important stuff the get something like this:
Warder: nice healing totem.
Commando: nice absorb/resist boost when below 70% health.
Warder: 40% health bonus + 100 armor.
Commando: enemy stun/slow/knockdown chance + straight damage.
So, considering that stuff is additive first and multiplicative last, what’s better? Does that +40% health matter in the end or is that 1000% vs 1040%? Do you need that totem or with your regeneration rate it’s also superfluous? Do demolitionist’s damage goodies actually work or are they just drops in the sea at higher levels? I guess they would help levelling immensely, but since you can’t switch classes after that…
I thought Commando may be a nice alternative too. The absorb/resist boost was appealing, and commando has it’s own retaliation damage skill, but as you said the alternative to the totem is stun/slow/knockdown. I found that to be counter productive to a retaliation build. You want the guys to hit you. Stunning them only makes this process take longer. The totem keeps you alive without slowing this process down. I think a commando is viable, I just question if it’s the most efficient if you are going with a pure retal/reflect build. Plus menhir’s will and the totem favor higher HP pools that the 40% boost provided (approx 5000hp on my guy). This mean menhir’s will heals me for more as does the totem since they are both percentage based.
I started with a blademaster before I abandoned him at lvl 70, the healing skill (can’t think of the name off hand) also had modifiers that gave a chance to dodge/deflect. For surviving, like commando with stun/slow, etc it was a good skill to have, the problem is, with retaliation/reflect, if they don’t hit me, they essentially don’t strike themselves.
So the hp bonus definitely isn’t negligable.
Another question: blast shield adds 65% ranged dodge chance - how does that work with reflect? Do I reflect first, dodge later or do I just dodge and facepalm?
Do damage from blast shield and upgraded vindictive flames with lightning arcs compensate for loss of damage due to their debilitating effects?
My final point is, would a commando be a simpler levelling but similar in survival capabilities version of your build, or lack of healing totem and some unnecessary/unwanted cc would be too noticeable? Since I don’t have almost any reflect/retaliate gear and it’s a bit too rare now, and people moan about levelling this guy - it would be nice to know first…
How is lvling this build a pain? Just get a shield & devotions for it + some retaliation damage und you can fly through the game savely, only bosses tae a while.
Overall quite save and easy to do.
I’m totally spoilt by grenado/canister bomb terrorists, ray warlocks and pistoleros. The stuff you mention: devotions, retaliation damage - it doesn’t come right away. Commando at least has some damage from skills, warder has to click on enemies. The horror!
Do you think this build can work out with elemental(fire, cold, lightning, etc) retaliate instead of physical retaliation?
If elemental retaliation, it should work with ranged.