Warlord Physical Retaliator - Cadence from the start; Righteous Fervor now with gear drops?

Grim Dawn General Discussion
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As always in my build posts, I will qualify that I am not a good gamer nor do I understand the Grim Dawn mechanics very well, but I am trying. My goal from the start of playing GD has been to build my own, unguided, unassisted toon that can beat most, if not all the End Game bosses, as well as make it through SR65 or higher. That may not seem like a challenge to many gamers, but for me, it is a real struggle. I have created several nice toons which have made it to SR30-ish but this is the first to go beyond. I have modified other players guides, while trying to learn GD, and been able to reach SR83 before dying, but this is my first solo, no help, no guides, no knowledge toon to go beyond SR40. With of my other builds, I have received very nice help and instruction from other players after I started to struggle, and this help as allowed those toons to go much further than the original build. That knowledge shared from others has also really helped me improve my builds. Now, on to the Warlord…
I leveled this Warlord, using Lokarr’s Set, Merits, etc., skipping most of Normal and Elite. This process took me about six hours. The longest part is getting the Devotions and the necessary Faction to Revered status. The build was originally based on seeing what I could do with gear I had in stash (I used Grim Dawn Item Assistant and all of my builds are based on leveling up to use gear I already have, and if better drops, yay!). I chose to build towards a toon using the “Totally Normal Shield” because it had Retaliation, and skill points to both Oathkeeper and Soldier. That means a Warlord and physical retaliation, since I have not done this class and I have never watched or read a guide on Warlord or Retaliation. This build is what I came up with, sort of.
I was building towards using this gear, as well: Mythical Final Stop shield, Kaisan’s Burning Eye amulet, and Milton’s Casque for the head (I do not remember the suffixes and prefixes for those – they were all nice for the build but nowhere near BiS – almost all the gear I save is 2/3-Green, or above). Since all of these items were great for physical damage and/or retaliation, the build was determined - cadence, physical retaliation Warlord. I would post the original GD Tools Calc build but I seemed to have overwritten it – sorry.
The plan changed in Ultimate Act 1, when a few things happened. The Stoneguard Pummeler dropped. I was already using the Stoneguard Girdle (the blueprint dropped from either a totem or shrine while leveling Faction status), so part of a set added benefits. Sorry, Totally Normally Shield, you worked well for an hour or two, from level 94 to 100, great even! Then, Mythical Markovian’ Vanguard dropped. These were better than the Raz’Zin’s Shoulderguards I had equipped at lvl 94. Wait… do I have the blueprint for the Mythical Markovian’s Visor? YES!
So, now the Warlord is running the full Markovian set and two of the Stoneguard set. If I had enough materials on-hand I would craft the Stoneguard Ward and see if replacing it with the Mythical Markovian’s Distinction would help. I am sure it would as this would add to Retribution, Righteous Fervor Retaliation damage and up the Oathkeeper skills by one. The downfall is losing a lot of health but I think the toon would manage. After all, it reached level 100 without the Markovian set!
What, did I just write “Righteous Fervor” in a Cadence build? Well, yes. Because of the item drops this toon has gained, I looked at the status for Righteous Fervor since the Stoneguard Girdle also adds to Retribution and Retribution greatly increases Retaliation damage. So…
I made a copy of this toon. Visiting Sahdina in Devil’s Crossing, skill points were reclaimed from Cadence and its line then added to Righteous Fervor and Retribution. Sadly, on paper, this looked like a real mistake. The Cadence damage appears to be 1.93x greater than then Righteous Fervor damage. That is significant and disappointing. However, since the toon wants to play, I humored it and went for a run through Act 2. Hhmmm…. No noticeable difference from piloting the Cadence version. In fact, it seems bosses died a bit quicker. In the Pit, easy. Cronley, easy. Oaky, lets run a real test.

Off to SR. Ugh… To be fair, I skipped to SR30 with a Waystone. From 30 to 35 was easy. SR40 to 45, a bit more challenging just because of poor piloting. I quit at SR50. Both toons did well but I felt the RF toon as actually easier and more manageable, but no idea why. So, running SR50 again with both toons, the run time was almost identical. This is not a real ‘test’ because the runs themselves are not identical nor are the bosses. Additionally, with the Cadence toon, I really struggled with the freezing. This was not because of the toon or its build quality bur rather because of the player piloting. One thing I noticed was that both had near deaths which were escapable and preventable, with better piloting. Neither version had any Energy issues, despite Energy being very, very low, in my opinion. The next-best build I created without help died at Ravager because of Energy. That toon easily handled the Bourbon Clones and Lokarr, but Energy was zapped quickly while fighting Ravager and I never could figure out why or how to avoid it.
This Warlock has low Energy but the Resistances are much higher. I think it might, might being said very cautiously, be able to beat Lokarr, but only one of my toons has been able to so far and that toon could not handle SR30 because of poor crowd management – read “piss poor AoE”. I need to learn how to manage Ravager better before attempting it. Although my toons are all softcore, I have a personal rule, toon dies, it is a fail, try again! Of course, I also ask for help to try to figure it all out and improve, but that does not always work.
Back to the Warlord and the reason for this post (finally!!!)
I made a YouTube video while running SR50 the second time with both toons. It is linked below. I have never made a video before, so it is not very good. I downgraded FPS from 60 to 30 while processing. I do not know if that was a wise move. Also, and a much greater problem, is that I play on a very wide screen. I have an ultrawide for drafting and CAD work and being too cheap to buy another monitor, that is what I use for gaming, as well. I am sure there is a way to set the games video to match whatever is required for YouTube, but I am not smart enough to figure it out as all the settings I try just end up unplayable. I apologize for the wildly wrong video size and I hope that it does not result in a useless example of Righteous Fervor versus Cadence. Also below, the links to the Cadence version and the Righteous Fervor version. I am sure that many people can tell me what I am doing wrong with Devotions and skill points, but for now, I will ignore those as I try to ‘learn’ how to improve this build on my own.
Probable weak areas: Wasted skill points in skills not necessary or rarely used. Weird devotions for a physical retaliation (I still struggle with Devotions). Wrong skills associated to Devotions – I really have zero understanding of how to manage that part of the game. Too low of mana as 2463 Energy, with almost 1500 in reserve, just seems a huge mistake in the build. Maybe energy can be fixed by different Devotions, and I will look into this, but for now, I plan to finish enough of the game to access Lokarr, Ravager, the Clones, Mogdrogen and Morgoneth at the Tomb of the Heretic. I have never tried the Crate quest, so maybe with this toon?
Hoping Retaliator Phiz does not die soon…

Here is the build at level 100, before making changes:

Here is the Righteous Fervor version:

And here is the Mythical Markovian;s and Stoneguard Pummeler upgrade (downgrade?)

As I feared the YouTube video is garbage. I can link it but I did not want to get flamed nor insult the forum. It is that bad! Sorry, I just do not know how to fix the video quality so that it can be uploaded properly to YouTube. I might try again with the original 60 FPS but I think the issue is my widescreen and the fact that GD does not allow me to properly adapt the game to the screen in a YT type size.

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youtube should allow for various formats/screen size recordings :thinking:, also shouldnt’ really affect quality or fps, you sure it’s not the recording itself something is happening with?

curious why you didn’t take certain skills, like Smite in oathkeeper, or Fighting Form on the cadence versions?
i’m guessing feeling short on points was the reason you didn’t take other passives like Field Command/Squad Tactics and Haven?

while optimizing devo routes for stats passives and celestial skills, balancing XY affinity can be rough, atleast we can boil the actual devo assignment down a bit more simple
passive/“when hit” procs, which are the kind you want potentially active all the time, you assign to a permanent/toggle buff, ex Fist of Vire/Obelisk to Counter Strike/Presence of Virtue/Bulwark/Presence of Might
offensive/“on attack” procs you can sorta put in different groups either based on the celestial skill’s cooldown, or importance
Resist Reduction procs are “often” considered important and put on either main attack or some kind of spamable (maximize hit chance)m or “guaranteed trigger”, ie a player skill that even tho it might have a cooldown increases the proc chance so despite the cooldown it’s likely that it will trigger it on almost every use(if not straight up 100% each time, which is possible for some)
then you have regular dmg celestial skills which you can somewhat safely assign based on cooldown, low cooldown devotion skill paired with high attack rate player skill, ex in your setup could be Bull/Bull Rush 0.5sec deco proc paired with your frequent hit/spam attack in either Cadence or Rightous Fervor
medium cooldown devos can usually safely pair with similar cd attack skill, like a 3sec cooldown devo paired with a 3-4sec player skill, will in many cases be totally fine or even perfect, - but ofc if you have any frequent attack rate skills still left available those would still work
and likewise long cd skills to long cd skills, ex could be Ulzaad devotion or big ones like dying god, paired with war cry long cooldown
that’s pretty much the basis of it/simple approach, and works pretty decently

unless you are actually using the 900 remaining mana at a rate you can’t recover, how much you have left or reserved on buffs isn’t really that big of a deal in Grim Dawn, most builds end up with a ridiculous surplus of unused mana they never come close to utilizing with the skills/consumption in their build
(not that Warlord can’t be mana hungry with some combos of skills ofc :sweat_smile:)
^builds that can’t really get much spirit or traditional regen can potentially benefit from Mana Leech tho to make up for that lack of regen

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Thanks again for the great information in your thorough (and quick) reply. Right after writing the thread, I wasted a ton of dynamite to blast through excess Blue and Legendary items for more materials. Then I crafted up the Stoneguard Ward for the RF toon. It was not a great craft as all the stats are below average but I decided to test it anyway. Health dropped from 19500-ish to 15000-ish. That seems significant but in the end, I think it did not matter. Ofc, one skill point bonus loss from Soldier but one added to Oathkeeper. A drop in Physical Damage to RF but a massive gain in Retaliation damage for RF via Retribution.

To test… well, I rifted back to SR. Wow, I managed all the way to SR67. I was going for 70 but my left hand started hurting from too much gaming today so I quit. SR65 was my goal. To me, this toon is a close success. It will not be a success until I finish the campaigns to reach the hidden quests, End Game bosses (read Ravager and Callagadra) .

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YouTube my allow but I was not able to figure it out. I might spend some time research and learning but I am not that interested. The raw video is excellent. I watched it in two different players on my computer. I am not sure what happens when uploading to YouTube. If you want to see what I mean about how bad it is, I can still link it but I made the video private in YT because it is so poor.

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sure you can PM the video if you prefer

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Good question… I had all three initially. I am not sure why I dropped them, or when. I probably did that somewhere when leveling and just neglected to get back to them when I had more skill points. I think I dropped Fighting Form somewhere around lvl 60 because I was not sure about all the bleed damage I had in retaliation (sort of like all the wasted Fire in Retaliation now). As for Smite and Haven, that was pure negligence, or oversight. As I did have them on my spreadsheet and definitely had them initially. Again, I think I was trying to re-manage points when I jumped to Elite to get the rest of Faction status and Devotion points.

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Here is a link. I changed it from Private to Unlisted. GD Warlord SR50 Physical Retaliation - Righteous Fervor vs Cadence - YouTube

Please do not shoot or torch the messenger.

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I guess I had a “vague to general” understanding but I still feel I am getting it wrong. I did change Devotions at about lvl 88? 90? Then somewhere during my SR runs I noticed the new devotions where just not increasing in level very well so I tried changing the associated skills. I will look at them again. None of them increased a single level while going from SR50 to 67. I find that weird. Maybe SR does not count for devotion skills experience? Or more likely, my changes just made it worse? I will re-read your comments and evaluate my next modifications.

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You are absolutely correct. I watched the energy use through that SR run and it appears to just fluctuated from 1509 to 1521. It really never changes from that zone. I guess I had it reversed, 900-ish in reserves and 1500 remaining. Either way, more than enough. I am just not sure why the other toon lost energy to Ravager while not losing it anywhere else. Apparently a leech I do not understand but the loss was enough to stall that character at Ravager, without beating him. I guess I am still scared from that experience.

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I find it odd that Benn’Jahr is listed as the “Greatest Monster Killed” when in reality, he seemed pretty easy compared to a lot of others. Those darn Nullifying gargoyle things with the flapping wings are the hardest, I feel. I was nullified three times during that run and had to panic-escape while trying to reset my buffs. That is not easy for me.

Benn'Jhar the Greatest
Benn'Jhar the Greatest647×697 98 KB

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When I quit the SR run to the loot room, I was rewarded with nine blueprints, five of which were movement Runes. One of the Runes is acid damage based (cannot remember which without looking) while also getting two other acid damage blueprints - Mythical Pestilence of Dreeg and Judgement of the Three. There was also another double-green amulet with acid retaliation. Is the game trying to tell me to build a Sentinel acid retaliation toon? Or even more impressive for the collection, this 3-green glory: Magi’s Vilgazor’s Heart of Scorched Ends. I have not built on fire yet and was curious about it. This might be fun. Someday.

The best toon I have played is an Acid Dervish based on three other builds I read in the forums, so I cannot consider it ‘my build’. But now, would acid retaliation violate my goal of not repeating what I have done before?

SR67 finally - and more blueprints
SR67 finally - and more blueprints943×683 130 KB

Triple Green Glory
Triple Green Glory1046×1182 159 KB

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because Rabagur also can do the mana leech trick, and he leeches your mana :smiling_imp:
just step out the blood pool thingy he cast every 6-8?secs, and the leech should stop quickly

it does, you just get all the XP in a big portion at the end/when you cash out - and as devotions go up in level they need a lot more xp too, so can be slower to level up
*and new devotions ofc need to be assigned to a skill or they get 0 xp

Fighting Form isn’t so much for the bleed dmg, since you’re not a bleed build, it’s for the multi hit. By default Cadence only hits 1 target, this is, less optimal in some fights, fighting form adds additional target to the Cadence hit, so you big bonk more enemies at the same time/aoe kill faster

yep, if you’re going Retaliation focus you really want RF over Cadence, simply because Cadence doesnt’ apply retal or “rata” as we call it (retaliation damage added to attack), which is significant dmg for retal builds the way retal works
another note is your sheet dmg only reflects RF “unmodified by anything but itself”, that means you will not be seeing your actual RF dmg listed “as multiplied by wps”, which makes RF appear to be a “dud” for regular phys builds, but i promise you in effect it’s not.
Since Cadence hit itself (3rd strike) doesn’t trigger wps, the sheet dmg is little more accurate on that

has nothing todo with actual strength or difficulty, it’s based on monster level, hp and name,
if you’ve killed 2 lvl 110 enemies, with equal health, Benji can just appear there because he starts with B and the other harder enemies started with F

you can “avoid” Nullification either by target killing the Arcane or Mageclaw named enemy “quickly” (will be a deep purple colour - might be different with your colour blind setting on, unsure),
aside from those only Gravathul Nemesis will cast nulli, and he has a specific animation telegraph, then you just run away
^also works on the regular Arcane or Mageclaw named purple heroes, tho can be rougher to spot
*and if you really hate the mechanic there is a mod to either completely disable it, or a macro? AHK thingy that can let you turn on buffs again easier

you can always make the “same” thing but different
acid retal you could use with different class, skills, devotions and ofc items, making it a different build which also plays different (at least imo)

about the video, it looks “normal” to me, in the sense that it looks almost like other ultra wide vids i’ve seen, with the sole difference being that YT doesn’t seem to auto scale it the same degree when not in full screen,
ex this is how small someone else’s wide screen vid is on my regular

image
image1920×1200 124 KB

and this is yours
image
image1920×1200 207 KB

so if yours is indeed much wider than the first (i think it was recorded in 3440x1440? unsure) then it could make sense

the other parts is just that i’m guessing the recording format/output file you had was either not set higher or YT couldn’t “understand” it and defaulted it - not totally sure about that/how that works

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That would explain why Righteous Fervor seems to do much better than Cadence. My bad design.

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I do not hate the mechanic nor want to change it. I am okay with it. I know the Gravathul warning and run. In SR the mobs make the running challenging and sometimes I just do not notice in time, therefore needing to flee. That is my issue, not the toons, so I am okay with it. I just wish I could realize it sooner than when I get the nullified alert.

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Agreed. The acid items buff Occult and Oathkeper, so Sentinel? I have not played this so maybe that is what I will do in May. I will finish out this Warlock then I will have to work on the farm. Life limits good gaming time! Searching my items, I did find a few nightblade/occultis acid retaliation items. Witch Hunter? No clue about that, either. There are just too many combinations. I will keep watching the item drops and decide on what to do as I play up this Warlock.

As for now, I am going to stick with the Righteous Fervor toon since it cleared SR67 and because it is more suited to retaliation. However, since you explained the issue with Cadence, I might add to Fighting Form. The Solael-Sect pants I am using buff Fighting Form but I have failed to benefit from them. Now that you taught me a better way, adding points to Fighting Form, with the +2 from the pants, it should help. Looking, I can get to 10 easily, with the points and +skills I have now. Taking one from somewhere else would get FF to 11, which would then give a 180-degree arc as well as 4 target maximum. That is a huge improvement to Cadence, not to mention the added physical damage percentage. I feel naive and ignorant for not noticing the myself. (Why I can consider the cadence version a fail…) I will try to get a few points from somewhere else and add to FF for 10 and to Smite, as suggested. Since I had Smite before, I do not mind adding again.

Thanks for all the help and time.

1 Like
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still keep in mind Cadence doesn’t apply retal like RF does, so for a retal build it can/will likely be less effective,
but for a regular phys build cadence can definitely end up working