When a ranged build is born...a proper constellations should be "worn"

RR is terrible, I know @Gnomish_Inquisition

Which tertiary resistance is referred as “CC”?? The Conversion point is on point :slight_smile:
Fair comment about Brute Force / Feral Hunger (and Upheaval)
Tenacity of the Boar doesn’t help the damage numbers, but OA bonus and Slow res - you are right about it.
The last point of this section of yours… Having maxed the mastery bar helps with core stats! If I would stop the progression at the necessary minimum, I would have to compensate the attribute points to properly wear the gear, and it could DISBALANCE the 3K OA / DA rule…

Item section:
Mythical Tempest Sigil - because of the + % spirit. Mythical Korvaak Brand was a second best choice in my eyes. You are probably right with the medal. Another WPS comes in handy.
Gloves: There are no gloves, having together: Attack Speed, Electrocute damage and supporting at least one of used skills, @Gnomish_Inquisition !
Boots: Again, there are no boots, having together: Phys res, electrocute OR elemental damage and supporting any of the skills.
Belt: Fair point, the belt was chosen (+best damage increase + at least support for one skills of mine)
Amulet: +2 to IEE +2 to EleBa and best damage increase is the key, why this particular AMU was chosen
2H weapon: +4 to IEE ; +4 to Sava, DOUBLE attack speed bonus (direct one + the one on IEE), although Mythical Evoker of Elgoloth sounds great, the sheet damage loss would be almost 3K.

General note: Gear was chosen mainly to support the damage output and many of your suggestions were “second best” :slight_smile:

Crowd Control resist; Stun, Slow, Freeze, Petrify, Trap etc you find back on char page 3

not a rule remember; but not spending points in mastery bar allows you to spend them in other helpful skills instead, balancing it out that way

would be what i might consider an “overvaluing of what spirit gives you”;
build loses 45% additive dmg (416,7 down to 371,7), or 1.69% total build lightning dmg (not factoring in the other elements) for 2h version and 1.65% for dw version in terms of the effect purely from spirit
that is a tiny gain/loss

electrocute and +skills are irrelevant there when the gain is bigger from speed alone
flat dmg+speed (and auto proc pet/dmg skill)

bonus dmg and high OA + speed and dmg proc skill

high speed + dmg proc

high speed and defense oriented
image

“insert green crafted gloves with variable bonuses by choice”

the 2 points lost in Overload gives you;
minus 2 aether res you don’t need (already over 60cap),
minus 23 OA; less than what 2 of the gloves have
chance of (non stacking) 50-90/3sec electrocute
meanwhile even the slowest attack speed gloves offers you a 10% final bonus on dw for a total gain of 6.8% base dps (atm, gain will reduce if other speed bonuses are added), and 5% dps for 2h version
massively more than the Overload 2pt (non stackable) DoT will give

once again +skills will be secondary, important stats etc is more significant, specially when it’s then a vital defence like phys res (atleast until 1.2.1)
Add to that some boots also having very useful proc skills that might also factor in
and once more the +2 Overload is tiny fraction of aether res, tiny bit of OA and small amount of non stackable DoT lost

+1 all > +2 single skill, in vast majority cases atleast

sheet dmg is bloated by DoT and other dmg types you’re not boosting much + base weapon being 2/3rds non lightning dmg (and you only have lighning RR not ele RR even remember)
if you actually had ele RR to take advantage of the fire/cold portion you carry it would make more sense imo

quick sheet comparison between merely using different weapon/gloves/medal on 2h version, and not even doing the other factors like reshuffling skill points or belt etc
as you can see it’s both more base dmg and more dps swapping to Evoker+Brand+Cinder gloves

*note since you’re right your green crossbow has more attack speed
if you shifted just gloves
image up 7k sheet dps
or medal + gloves it would look like this

sheet dps up 20k
*still bloated by bunch of unsupported dmg types ofc (where switching to evoker then unifies it into your current main supported raw/pure lightning - even if less attack speed combined, and savagery difference is then 100k lightning dps green vs 126k lightning dps Evoker )

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I have tracked some preferences, you mention quite often, if not always, @Gnomish_Inquisition :slight_smile:

  1. Attack speed is (maybe the most) important thing, compared to other factors
  2. OA is preferred over DA, if you have to choose between boosting one of those attributes.

All the items you mentioned, I have been using with OLDER versions of the build. But keeping it balanced was much more difficult for me. And the damage output was slightly lower.

I am trying to put together two premises:

  1. keeping my idea across the all builds
  2. create something, which is not a crappy build…

It is mentally and emotionally difficult, being in my state, @Gnomish_Inquisition
Apparently, I am not creating totally crappy builds, which need better care in every aspect. But I am still failing at some point.

@Gnomish_Inquisition Later today, I am going to release Fire Sorcerers. The “elemental misery” builds will be over. And an extra comment about the Fire Sorcerers I am going to make right now - I think the Grim Tools are bugged / broken, when calculating DMG if Fire Strike is involved.

it’s not so much that it’s the most important thing, just that when it’s stuff you can “always” get you’re losing out by then not taking it
core examples would be Kraken, Attack speed gloves, attack speed component in gloves/amulet
in fact we can make this comparison easy; why do we always take Kraken on 2h attack speed builds; if we then volunteer to not take attack speed gloves too when available?
why do we suddenly care about speed on Kraken, but not gloves? simplistic “avg” answer would then be ofc we care about getting a bit of speed on gloves too
*as with all things there will ofc always be some exceptions, but in many cases that notion will work out.
**this is then also something to keep in mind in relation to how much/if a build scales better on speed or not

depends
for me, in general/always; you will want at minimum 100% hit rating against regular content/not counting Celestials(you need 3500 against them which not all builds get). - that gives us a minimum floor to aim for
DA scaling is different, it’s more variable, and there isn’t the same floor except potential crit immunity; which again will/can vary hugely.
Then you have the additional benefit OA have 2 layers combined hit rating and crit chance, the first is a minimum dmg guarantee the second is a bonus dmg potential; more crits more dmg
DA does technically have 2 layers of benefit too, “reduced dmg taken”; but you need a huge amount of DA to reach that second layer, and that’s just not as easy.
This could then boil down to in essence of us benefitting more from OA “even past a certain point” than we do DA/DA might be harder to obtain to reach that additional benefit simply not making it worth the tradeoffs
Therefor i’d rather have a 3200 OA build with 2800DA than than vice versa, likewise i might not be as dead set on an even 3k-3k OA/DA split, if i can get more OA even if the DA then tips below 3k in similar exchange
also worth to keep in mind 3k DA technically also isn’t even enough to reach uncritable state against Celestials, so if that’s the aim we still need more. (and ofc an even more absurd amount to then get bonus dmg reduced)

^this then also sorta ties slightly in with the “sometimes don’t waste points unnecessarily in mastery bar”, because aside from the health bonus, maybe the OA/DA bonuses isn’t worth the scaling on mastery bar skill points spent, and the dmg bonus even less so.

i think that part will probably be relatively easy regardess
even if you don’t take ex wind devils, atleast fitting in ex flat RR should be easy, and obv for a lightning build could probably even say elemental storm/Rhowan’s Crown is fitting the theme, even if you might not like Manticore/Revenant procs

again as mentioned earlier don’t worry about that mindset too much if you’re trying to compare vs meta or “top builds”.
Find a definition of what is crappy “to you”; where does your performance tolerances or framework lie.
Best example i can give is ex my Shattered Realm clear times are anywhere from 50-100% slower than the top gang/elite meta runners. If i’m clearing SR in 6mins i consider it on the faster side with 8min about avg, meanwhile toxic crucible channel might consider 6mins “avg at best” if not already in slow territory.
Most of my builds i don’t even set up to clear Ravager/Calla but take it as a bonus if manageable, prior to 1.2 my aim was Crucible, SR65-66, Morgoneth and Lokarr
after 1.2 changed Lokarr to be vastly harder for melee i don’t even worry if close range builds can’t include him now. On the other hand i’ve probably increased my SR goal to 75-76 now,
and 1.2.1 if current version holds, i wont even consider Calla/Ravager remotely anymore because they are harder than ever before, and i’m fine with that

don’t consider it failing, perhaps just consider the game a continued learning process but also just “from a certain standpoint”, again the whole “theme build vs meta comparison”,
the more specific theme/style we want in our builds the harder it can be to squeeze in “all” the meta viewpoints, and there is nothing wrong with cherrypicking where/what/when if it fits us

grimtools can’t calc skill dps/dmg tooltip at all, only ingame can do that

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Alright. I think the time has come to discuss another builds of mine. This time it is a pair of Fire Sorcerers. DW Ranged one and 2H ranged one.
DW ranged one - Sorcerer, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

2H ranged one - Sorcerer, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Used (and not used) skills:
Iskandra’s Elemental Exchange (+ Manifestation + Overload + Elemental Balance), no constellation
Mirror of Ereoctes (1pt, bum saving skill), no constellation
Maiven’s Sphere of Protection (+ Conversion), no constellation
Reckless Power, Arcane Barrier (DW) ; no constellation (2H)
Inner Focus
Arcane Will
Flame Touched (+ Temper)
Fire Strike (+ Explosive Strike + Static Strike + Brimstone), Eldritch Fire
Vindictive Flame (+ Ulzuin’s Wrath)
Volley (Plunderer’s Talisman), Elemental Storm (DW)
Stormfire (Seal of Destruction), Shield Wall (2H)


Blast Shield IS NOT USED. And this time, I forgot add one point in there. Completely my fault, not a dumb “skill ommitment”… :slight_smile:
Possible ERROR in Grim Tools: Adding any point in Explosive Strike, Static Strike or Brimstone doesn’t make sheet damage higher by a single point. For Grim Tools, it doesn’t care, if you take the later nodes or not… But spending points in Fire Strike is calculated into the damage sheet… Logically it seems to me to add max points into Fire Strike and Static Strike and spare points into Explosive Strike and Brimstone…
Thermite Mine (+ Hellfire Mine) IS NOT USED. I know it could help with Fire / Ele RR.
I’ve tried different gear on DW and 2H variant. One is set approach and one is using more greens.
Overall WPS chance is 25% (DW), 0% (2H).
OA is least 3K without taking PROC BUFFS into consideration.
DA and AR is at least 3K with taking PROC BUFFS into consideration (Arcane Will and Shield Wall).
All resists are 80%+40% overcap at least, Stun res is 80% at least.
Tertiary resistances are not negative.
General lifesteal = 5%.
Fire RR = -23%.

just a quick note on this
A, i don’t know what/where you’re looking; pointing anything in fire strike doesn’t increase sheet dmg in Griimtools, not even fire strike itself
B, this is because as i mentioned earlier Grimtools doesn’t and can’t calc sheet dmg; and never has, for any skill, ever

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Tomorrow, the Acid Witch Hunters are going to be presented and I promise, they are more composed builds… But first things first. Two posts above, Fire Sorcerers are.

You are too hard on yourself when you talk about ‘failing’. It’s a complex game, don’t forget that, and learn from Gnome’s great tips. It will only expand your GD joy!

And if you want to do your own thing, the campain allows that, it’s very forgiving in terms of completion.

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Thank you for your words! The user above were insulting me … (savage1991)… I reported his message…
““You are definitely the worst builder I have seen in all this time on the forum, and I am not saying this because your builds are an insult to the eyes, but because you do not accept any suggestions.”” HE WROTE :frowning:

The Druid, Sorcerer and Trickster were the worst… Tomorrow, I hope better builds are coming :slight_smile:

a lot of it is gonna boil down to the the previous mentioned stuff, with some kudos this time added in; because you actually have RR in devotions
and while devos probably aren’t that optimal the DW version actually aint that bad, and having both witchblade and crown for RR is a big deal, so that’s well done on both.
in the regular sense it’s then mainly speed, lifesteal/regen and wps amount, phys res again that’s low, and health on 2h version seems strangely much lower than usual

Note on itemization would be similar to before in terms of boots and medal/Korvaak Brand once again directly boosting Firestrike, and for DW version adding another wps
This time we also have a direct scenario where Seal of the Void would be better, because wps+speed+fire dmg bonus, seal of destruction doesn’t really give you much void doesn’t do better
For Ring suggestion could have been Combustion band for more fire RR, but i’m personally kinda fine with your chosen rings.
Pistol could also have been changed so you had ex more fire RR and potential conversion mod


but that’s smaller stuff

funnily enough you took the best gloves on the dw version, but went back to the no speed/less build beneficial gloves on 2h version

imo you need to max brimstone and explosive strike, aside from various direct attack boosts there, since there is regular habit of just maxing XY other skills not always as beneficial it means shifting dmg investment to stuff benefitting you less than direct Firestrike investment would
^in most cases you want your main attack’s flat dmg nodes boosted/maxed on “all” builds

good that you caught that yourself,
this is the type of “automatic” habit stuff one can run into when building, like taking Menhir’s Will/blitz in Soldier on 2h gunners despite not working with guns :sweat_smile:

yep, and i actually understand not taking them even if it’s “technically less optimal”; they can simply just be annoying to play with for some people or some builds

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Thanks @Gnomish_Inquisition ! I save all your comments into TXT file so I have them with me even offline! :slight_smile:

Let me ask one quick question: When choosing a weapon (it is not limited to the guns), shouldn’t I “limit” the search on the weapons with the BASE DAMAGE CORRESPONDING to the damage I want to deal?
So pistol with Fire damage should have the base fire damage (not chaos)?

Today, WItch Hunters are going to be presented. And I hope this time it will be more “pleasant” to your eyes…

yes, in general; but keep in mind conversion stuff exists, ex Sorcerer, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
this means as long as the item/weapon in question doesn’t convert away from our desired output dmg type (and gives +bonuses still ofc) we can potentially open up certain item options with a different gear combination

Alright. I think the time has come to discuss another builds of mine. This time it is a pair of Acid Witch Hunters. DW Ranged one and 2H ranged one.
DW ranged one - Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

2H ranged one - Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Used (and not used) skills:
Amarasta’s Blade Burst (+ Lethal Assault), Rumor
Pneumatic Burst (+ Shadow Dance + Elemental Awakening) no constellation
Veil of Shadow (+ Night’s Chill), no constellation
Phantasmal Armor
Merciless Repertoire
Solael’s Witchfire (- Second Rite), Fetid Pool
Possession, no constellation
Curse of Frailty (+ Vulnerability), Shield Wall
Blood of Dreeg (+ Aspect of the Guardian), no constellation
Volley (DW) / Murmur’s Kiss (2H), Acid Spray


Second Rite (the node of Solael’s Witchfire) IS NOT USED, it doesn’t help the acid / poison damage at all, only potentially valueable is the vitality res, which has been resolved by another methods. Solael’s Witchfire IS USED because of the Attack speed boost
Pneumatic Burst IS USED as a healing skill, providing extra DEFENSE and ELE RES.
Anatomy of Murder IS NOT USED, but I understand that there is a potential by raising the Cunning by % value. These builds don’t have any WPS. The real powerhouse of these builds is Blood of Dreeg, which has a lot of modifiers to it in favour of the builds.

Two conversions take place with these builds.
A) General ELE to ACID (135% DW, 45% 2H)
B) ABB COLD to ACID (100% DW, 200% 2H)
Overall WPS chance is 0%.
OA and DA are least 3K without taking PROC BUFFS into consideration.
AR is at least 3K with taking PROC BUFFS into consideration (Shield Wall).
All resists are 80%+40% overcap at least, Stun res is 80% at least.
Tertiary resistances are not negative.
General lifesteal = 5%.
Acid & Poison RR = -91% (Vulerability 28%, Rumor (via ABB) 30%, Night’s Chill 33%).

these are looking more and more “normal”, and the tweaks/comments would be minor
you’re getting all the RR, you’re even getting an acid devo dmg proc,
main devo note would again be with affinity surplus, and on 2h version you’re for some reason not taking the same devos as dw/taking worse devos not getting Scythe despite being able to take it?

this is not true; you have vitality conversion to acid
a note i’d even touch upon allowing you a potential item swap, but also you’re not taking Pack of Deadly Means on 2h version despite then benefitting from it.

Conversion+Second Rite aside then, the skill point stuff is truly minor,

  • over investing in Curse of Frailty, Veil of Shadow (scales poorly past soft cap),
  • likewise Solael’s Witchfire doesn’t give you speed on the 13th point so it’s wasted(meanwhile 14th point in Pneumatic burst would give you speed and OA and regen),
  • once more going ham on Phantasmal Armour when not necessary, likewise elemental awakening isn’t that worthwhile here,
  • and not putting 1pt in Anatomy of Murder passive for free cunning and racism boost

^ -truly minor stuff

Not going tier50 in Nightblade this time, which imo is the right decision

a technicality for ABB build is they in many cases actually benefit from using a DAR and WPS, in this case the wps would be limited but you could technically use Shard of Beronath for AA inbetween cooldown,
tho i don’t fault you for not wanting an additional button and having to “rotate in” ABB itself on an actual main ABB build, but it’s still something to note/be aware of i think.

usual stuff of speed/lifesteal/regen being on the lower side, rest looks fine/normal, getting good HP on witch hunter is sadly pretty hard :sweat_smile:

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I am glad this time the build seems more composed to you. It was hard, before I was able to properly put everything together.

Tried the Devo change → got points from Manticore, investing them into Scythe. Removed points from Eel and one point in starting pentagram and put those points into Rat.
Damage-wise the output is the SAME (+/- 2 damage difference), better OA and DA, Physical resist 32% —> 28%…

So, the change (taking Scythe and Rat), vs keeping Manticore and Eel is LITERALLY COSMETIC.

2H Mythical Murmur’s Kiss - don’t forget that the passive bonus from Mythical Pack of Deadly Means is limited to DW Ranged, so 2H users don’t benefit from it. Murmur’s Kiss has better skill point gain and it has attack speed (which MPoDM doesn’t).

Today, I am going to present Vitality Cabalists, which were true pain in the “second face”, before the “energy costs” from (not only built-in) auras were removed…

Noticed one thing about acid builds, or better said their gear. A lot of acid gear has some form of retal dmg. So regular mobs, when I move, if they touch my acid ranged chars, they die because of touching me…

Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator, Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator, Witch Hunter, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
these are just some examples of potential “permutations”, all of them with more than just cosmetic changes (1k health, double regen etc)

not the part i’m referring to, but once again the conversion; so you can get more dmg from taking Second Rite

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Alright. I think the time has come to discuss another builds of mine. This time it is a pair of Vitality Cabalists. DW Ranged one and 2H ranged one.
DW ranged one - Cabalist, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

2H ranged one - Cabalist, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Used (and not used) skills:
Solael’s Witchfire (+ Second Rite), Fetid Pool
Curse of Frailty (+ Vulnerability), no constellation
Blood of Dreeg (+ Aspect of the Guardian), no constellation
Beronath’s Fury, Will of Rattosh
Reaping Strike, no constellation
Necrotic Edge, no constellation
Harbinger of Souls, no constellation
Bone Harvest (1pt, enabler, - Dread + Soul Harvest), Shield Wall
Spectral Binding (+ Spectral Wrath)
Call of the Grave, no constellation


I was doubting and still am “torn apart” between Possession and Harbinger of Souls, both exclusive auras offer Vitality damage support and aditional stuff. The life leech won the HoS for me, though I understand that Disrupt resist on Possession is also important. But if the consensus is that Possession is better, I have no troubles to switch it.
Bone Harvest has only one point invested in, the Dread modifier IS NOT USED and Soul Harvest is MAXED. Soul Harvest (with Bone Harvest) seems to work like Lethal Assault with ABB, so the playstyle is 1) apply BH, 2) shoot with rifles until Soul Harvest is “depleted”.
Some non 100% conversions take place with these builds through gear and gained modifiers.
Through a skill modifier, Call of the Grave becomes second temp buff, which can heal a bit.
Overall WPS chance is 57/58% (DW/2H).
OA and DA are least 3K without taking PROC BUFFS into consideration.
AR is at least 3K with taking PROC BUFFS into consideration (Shield Wall).
All resists are 80%+40% overcap at least, Stun res is 80% at least.
Tertiary resistances are not negative.
General lifesteal = 20% (DW) / 24% (2H).
Vitality RR = -120% (Vulerability 28%, Spectral Wrath 35%, Will of Rattosh 25%, Mortal Coil 12%, Mark of the Fallen 10%, Curse of Crushed Resolve 10%). 45% Vitality RR when hit, 75% Vitality RR on attack.

minor notes like the witch hunter
Devos could ofc be better, but overall isn’t bad, missing flat RR and could do with more speed and dmg procs (abomination or dying god)

skill points basically spot on this time for me, with the caveat of missing Damage Reduct from ill omen - and could be argued Mark of Torment is more worth defensively than call of the grave is offensively (actually MoT can also work offensively now because fo sunder)
I don’t really blame you not taking MoT with its limited use and extra button press
Items are mostly fine, i’d suggest Nercro Luna MI belt for more chaos conversion and probably a +1 all skill neck if not Blood Knight neck (good skeleton player scaled proc), but death watcher aint bad

i think Harbinger wins for 2 reasons, speed and lifesteal, suppose technically also flat dmg if we’re not fully converting chaos.
the absorb on possession is fine, but the offensive utility of Harbinger then also gives us some pseudo defensive utility because more speed+lifesteal+flat dmg means we heal up from dmg faster, which in most cases should be enough/the absorb on possession wouldn’t be necessary to a benefit perspective outside the most extreme cases like Ravager/Calla etc

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Alright. I think the time has come to discuss another builds of mine. This time it is a pair of Aether Spellbinders. DW Ranged one and 2H ranged one.
DW ranged one - Spellbinder, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

2H ranged one - Spellbinder, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Used (and not used) skills:
Reaping Strike, Shield Wall
Necrotic Edge, Phoenix Fire
Spectral Binding (+ Spectral Wrath), no constellation
Call of the Grave, no constellation
Iskandra’s Elemental Exchange (+ Overload + Elemental Balance), no constellation
Mirror of Ereoctes, no constellation
Maiven’s Sphere of Protection (+ Conversion), no constellation
Reckless Power, no constellation
Inner Focus
Arcane Will
Fabric of Reality
Beronath’s Fury, Arcane Bomb


The question is, if “IEE” (the core buff / skill itself) should be maxed (12), if not, the points can go into Call of the Grave, Conversion, or even picking Ill Omen or Mark of Torment. Some spare points could be brought back from the Necromancer mastery bar (50 now).
This time, Reckless Power is USED over Harbinger of Souls. Though HoS provide same benefits plus lifesteal, the conversion is not into the desired damage type and flat damage bonus is not aether.
Through a skill modifier, Call of the Grave becomes second temp buff, which can heal a bit.
Gear note: 4/5 (- helm) Krieg’s set could be used as well, the medal slot - Mark of the Dreadblade could be used as well. The helm slot - Ascended Casque is better with all its skill benefits, Revenant King brings Attack Speed…
Overall WPS chance is 95/56% (DW/2H).
OA is at least 3K without taking PROC BUFFS into consideration.
DA and AR are at least 3K with taking PROC BUFFS into consideration (Shield Wall and Arcane Will).
All resists are 80%+40% overcap at least, Stun res is 80% at least.
Tertiary resistances are not negative.
General lifesteal = 17%.
Aether RR = -66/67% (Arcane Bomb 35%, Spectral Wrath 31%/32% (DW/2H))

Missing flat RR, no DR/Ill Omen, no Soul Harvest
not sure why you decided to switch helmet on 2h version, it’s arguably a bad helmet for aether dmg and costing you dmg
Slow res is low, DW speed on the lower side, couple items could probably be changed/medal relic and such.

yes and no, you have elemental conversion on the 2h (when changing helmet), and when the points are there (imo they are) and having full elemental conversion i think it’s generally fine to take IEE for little greed
You can get points for soul harvest/ill omen simply lowering necro mastery tier, and i don’t think Call of the Grave, being a 40% uptime temp buff would be worth over perma dmg increase from IEE,
^and that’s in “best of cases”; you don’t even really have the OA to benefit from CoG crit (which is all you get) let alone to make it worth for the horrible %scaling Grave then has on top of only being temporary

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