Where's the press coverage?

[medierra]

Part of it is, we don’t have a PR person constantly working to get us press mentions / articles. We pretty frequently will just release stuff, without bothering to contact press sites and announce what’s coming. People have called us “lazy devs” before and in the case of PR, it may actually be true.

I also stopped doing paid advertising on press sites because the results, in terms of traffic generated per dollar spent was incredibly poor vs. running ads in Facebook… or even just doing nothing. Getting featured on Steam generates over 9000x more sales than paying for advertisement on a gaming site. When I stopped buying advertisements, some sites that I won’t mention (cough, cough, RPS) stopped covering Grim Dawn or their coverage became pretty minimal.

The reality though, is there are so many gaming sites now, plus streamers, bloggers, etc, that no one source of media is very important and I’m not sure it’s worth my effort to chase coverage or pay for advertising. In the age of digital media, where games remain on “shelves” forever, to some degree, advertising is just expediting some of the sales you’d get over time anyway.

Look how many indie games the press couldn’t stop gushing over that released to modest or poor sales. Meanwhile, with relatively sparse coverage, we’re doing better than I would have ever hoped was possible when we started out.

On the other hand, we did get some decent press very early on, before and around the time of the Kickstarter, that helped us get the ball rolling. Grim Dawn has been around for a long time…

I guess also my personal ideal is that I’d rather put effort into making stuff to generate profit than spending time tinkering with marketing and other BS to “maximize returns”. Might be “bad business” to finance bros but we’re doing well enough so far that I just don’t have the fucks to chase more profits that way. Would rather invest my time in the next project. shug…

[lqdhorror]

snip

That’s messed up about RPS…

Thanks for the detailed post and keep up the amazing work!!

[the8anarchist]

yeah word of mouth does a lot of things for “advertisement” and I think people are forgetting in the digital age, “word of mouth” can mean quite a few things now. You have your various friends, across steam, social media, other games and launchers, and other things, that old methods of advertisement honestly pale in comparison.

Think about it this way, I can tell people about Grim Dawn, show them the screenshots, and if I can get them even slightly interested, I can get them to watch youtube videos, or streams on twitch and they’ll see competent gameplay from actual players who have the time to invest in honing their skill and knowledge of the game and make it look great, as opposed to “game journalists” (and I use that term lightly) who, while I understand have to review several games in a year, often have subpar skill at the games and under represent them, or you have a reviewer who isn’t competent at a specific type of game and plays poorly and either again misrepresents the game, or worse lets their bias in and says because they themselves are bad at the game, the game is bad.

all in all the old ways of coverage and advertising aren’t as appealing in this day and age, especially when there are better avenues that don’t cost a company money.

[medea_fleecestealer]

yeah word of mouth does a lot of things for “advertisement” and I think people are forgetting in the digital age, “word of mouth” can mean quite a few things now. You have your various friends, across steam, social media, other games and launchers, and other things, that old methods of advertisement honestly pale in comparison.

Think about it this way, I can tell people about Grim Dawn, show them the screenshots, and if I can get them even slightly interested, I can get them to watch youtube videos, or streams on twitch and they’ll see competent gameplay from actual players who have the time to invest in honing their skill and knowledge of the game and make it look great, as opposed to “game journalists” (and I use that term lightly) who, while I understand have to review several games in a year, often have subpar skill at the games and under represent them, or you have a reviewer who isn’t competent at a specific type of game and plays poorly and either again misrepresents the game, or worse lets their bias in and says because they themselves are bad at the game, the game is bad.

all in all the old ways of coverage and advertising aren’t as appealing in this day and age, especially when there are better avenues that don’t cost a company money.

Indeed. I mentioned the new town builder over on another Steam forum a while back. And that reminds me I haven’t posted anything about it over on TQF yet! :eek:

[Lily]

It’s sad that a lot of devs think pouring stupid amounts of money in marketing is a must.
Truth is, grim dawn can only become as popular as diablo if poe litterally shuts down. poe came first and it’s free and great, most people who would love grim dawn already have another good game and don’t want to play 2 at the same time.

[medea_fleecestealer]

Don’t think the devs are worried about becoming as popular as Diablo. GD has exceeded their expectations by a wide margin as far as sales go. Medierra’s already said he’s not interested in getting that much bigger.

Mysterious uptick in sales since Nov 2nd...

To answer your other question about us become a bloated mega-corp - probably not anytime soon haha. The other benefit of being a single-owner company is that I’m pretty happy with how things are and I don’t feel like I need anymore money, beyond us just continuing to make profits like we are.
So there isn’t much attraction to “blowing up big” for me. I feel like the detraction of having to manage a larger company would greatly outweigh any benefit of moar money at this point.

We’ve gotten inquiries by potential investors looking to dump some money on us for some bigger project but that just seems like a headache to me, dealing with investors and suddenly having to schedule milestones and report what we’re doing, convince outside people to let us do this or that… no thanks!

That said, I wouldn’t mind growing a bit more, as I do have an interest in working on different games and it’s fun to see things progressing and taking shape - ideally at a somewhat faster rate than often is the case with us haha. Currently we have just enough people to work on our “new game” plus a GD expansion. I think we’ll be stretched thin if we start another totally new project. We’re actually in a weird spot currently where it would be great to hire another artist to wrap up FG but after that is finished, there would then be a lull before we get the next thing rolling, where we might not have enough work to go around… so it’s better to just try to grind through with the team we have for now, then hire later, once future things are in production.

[Natt]

It’s sad that a lot of devs think pouring stupid amounts of money in marketing is a must.
Truth is, grim dawn can only become as popular as diablo if poe litterally shuts down. poe came first and it’s free and great, most people who would love grim dawn already have another good game and don’t want to play 2 at the same time.

Maybe POE is free and great, but the game has different target audience. Grim Dawn wouldn’t make that big if both games shared same target audience.

[SDeadlight]

I really love how Low key this game is though. I mean some people have heard about it and word of mouth will travel fast but it leaves the community to build itself up and the creators/devs to concentrate more on the game rather than the PR aspect. So many “big” games get tons of streamers and lots of coverage and advertisements but have to have a dedicated department for that and there goes some of the budget. Then it’s partially about chasing ratings and reviews and so building and adding to the game sometimes goes into the process of wanting to “attract” attention rather than fixing the game and adding to it. I think Crate does a great job just adding and fixing the game and the community builds and handles itself. I love being a part of this community so far. There is great information on the board and all sorts of knowledge and interesting aspects to share and it’s a welcoming community but not the “look at us we’re amazing” type community. Sure seeing more write-ups and streams about this game could draw in more people but would it be people who would really add to the community or just people who want to be a part of the popular kids clubs?

My thoughts on it. Grim Dawn has turned into a huge love affair for me and I’m still an eternal noob but it’s fit right into my life as a pleasant surprise. I didn’t know I needed a game and world like this until I found it. If that makes sense.

[Myrdynn]

fwiw, I make sure to tell everyone about it that I can

I would like someday to see a true multiplayer option for the game, I think that would boost the game 10 fold

[medea_fleecestealer]

fwiw, I make sure to tell everyone about it that I can

I would like someday to see a true multiplayer option for the game, I think that would boost the game 10 fold

Zantai’s reply to the question from the 25th May stream:

“As the question comes up all the time I will answer it one more time on stream. Dedicated servers would be a cool feature. I think if we were to have it, it would have to have happened when the game was new, when we could actually garner attention for the game and get people excited for the fact there are dedicated servers, there are seasons and all these hardcore multiplayer features. Instead we focussed on a single player experience, that is ultimately what Grim Dawn is about and we’re sticking to that, it’s working well for us. I think dedicated servers would be great, they will not happen for this game. Maybe Grim Dawn 2.”

[Myrdynn]

Zantai’s reply to the question from the 25th May stream:

“As the question comes up all the time I will answer it one more time on stream. Dedicated servers would be a cool feature. I think if we were to have it, it would have to have happened when the game was new, when we could actually garner attention for the game and get people excited for the fact there are dedicated servers, there are seasons and all these hardcore multiplayer features. Instead we focussed on a single player experience, that is ultimately what Grim Dawn is about and we’re sticking to that, it’s working well for us. I think dedicated servers would be great, they will not happen for this game. Maybe Grim Dawn 2.”

oh I know its not going to happen, its just my biggest wish

[dewzor]

First post on this forum, yay!

Im a marketer myself, been a gamer since Quake 1 released on PC(1996?) and have maaany hours of online gaming behind me. Was a hardcore fan of Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. I absolutely LOVE Grim Dawn, tho i think it could use some more endgame content(hopefully FG will sort that!).

I read the devs reply in this thread and i respect your position on not wanting to go full capitalist and squeeze every dollar out of marketing, but to focus on the product instead. However, id really advise you to do more marketing, smart marketing. As i said above, ive really been around and played LOTS of games, i can tell a good game from a bad game. And Grim Dawn is an AWESOME game. Even without endgame its a great experience, totally worth the buy, especially for playing it through with a friend or three.

Id advise you to do some smart marketing. Theres mumbo jumbo “by the book” marketers who do things expensively and inefficient, and there’s marketers who just gets shit done with smart, custom tailored strategies. Id obviously suggest u to go with the second one.

What i would do if i were you is something like this(but there are surely even better ideas out there, just dropping my 2 cents that are from the top of my head):

Before the FG release(like right now or soon), make the base game free or a free demo(first 2 acts or whatever), and get some ARPG loving streamers to play your game, sponsored in some way. ARPG streamers are super hungry for a good ARPG anyway so introducing GD to them should be favour anyways. This would build up a huge hype for the game and every new player reffed, is a good opportunity to get him to ref his friends into playing with him as well, and buy the expansions.

This game is WAYY below its “weight” in the numbers of gamers that actually know about it, i believe u have a big hole here just waiting to be filled.

Would love to see you guys succeed really big, and i think u got a great shot at doing that!

PS English is not my native language, deal with it.

[Ceno]

A lot of bigname ARPG streamers already know of and have streamed GD, and are likely planning to stream FG when it releases. Pohx, Quin69, CuteDog, etc., and that’s just for English-speakers. GD has seen a few ten-thousand-viewer streams from France and Russia too, all without Crate handing out any money.

There was a Demo used a while back at PAX(?). Wonder what ever happened to it.

[Annaroth]

First post on this forum, yay!

Im a marketer myself, been a gamer since Quake 1 released on PC(1996?) and have maaany hours of online gaming behind me. Was a hardcore fan of Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. I absolutely LOVE Grim Dawn, tho i think it could use some more endgame content(hopefully FG will sort that!).

I read the devs reply in this thread and i respect your position on not wanting to go full capitalist and squeeze every dollar out of marketing, but to focus on the product instead. However, id really advise you to do more marketing, smart marketing. As i said above, ive really been around and played LOTS of games, i can tell a good game from a bad game. And Grim Dawn is an AWESOME game. Even without endgame its a great experience, totally worth the buy, especially for playing it through with a friend or three.

Id advise you to do some smart marketing. Theres mumbo jumbo “by the book” marketers who do things expensively and inefficient, and there’s marketers who just gets shit done with smart, custom tailored strategies. Id obviously suggest u to go with the second one.

What i would do if i were you is something like this(but there are surely even better ideas out there, just dropping my 2 cents that are from the top of my head):

Before the FG release(like right now or soon), make the base game free or a free demo(first 2 acts or whatever), and get some ARPG loving streamers to play your game, sponsored in some way. ARPG streamers are super hungry for a good ARPG anyway so introducing GD to them should be favour anyways. This would build up a huge hype for the game and every new player reffed, is a good opportunity to get him to ref his friends into playing with him as well, and buy the expansions.

This game is WAYY below its “weight” in the numbers of gamers that actually know about it, i believe u have a big hole here just waiting to be filled.

Would love to see you guys succeed really big, and i think u got a great shot at doing that!

PS English is not my native language, deal with it.

Hello there!

Thats exacly What I was thinking about lately! Sure theres huge diversity at advertise platform, but it doesnt mean this should be ignored. From my perspective, one of the Best solutions is advertising over twitch.

Give opportunity to play GD to most recognized streamers of genre, Such as Poe, and Diablo 3 ASWELL as releasing demo versiom of the game, also ask streamers to mention about that durning streams.

Making a demo is actually the key of that, becouse, hey lets be honest, its not like everyone will spend 25+ bucks even if the game looks avesome on stream. Therefore giving dudes a chance to try out the game Just after (or even durning stream will give all those guys trying to fill a empty hole after Diablo 2 opportunity to try it out and finally fill it with something truly worth it.

Also developing GD 2 with dedicated servers seems like a natural progression of the game. Dont worry too much about competitions, GD was developer as single player game from the start and thats what makes it unique.

[medea_fleecestealer]

A lot of bigname ARPG streamers already know of and have streamed GD, and are likely planning to stream FG when it releases. Pohx, Quin69, CuteDog, etc., and that’s just for English-speakers. GD has seen a few ten-thousand-viewer streams from France and Russia too, all without Crate handing out any money.

This. There’ll be plenty of streamers well known and not so well known streaming the game once FG drops.

[Paavo]

its because its not a multiplayer game

if it was and had a persistent server, it would be in the conversation

This along with ladders/seasons is it. People love competition. The most popular games being steamed are competitive. GD has zero competitive aspects.

[medea_fleecestealer]

This along with ladders/seasons is it. People love competition. The most popular games being steamed are competitive. GD has zero competitive aspects.

And many of us actually like that believe it or not. I have zero interest in multiplayer, ladders, seasons, etc. I don’t play games to compete, I play them to enjoy them at my own pace, in my own way.

[Glimpse]

And many of us actually like that believe it or not. I have zero interest in multiplayer, ladders, seasons, etc. I don’t play games to compete, I play them to enjoy them at my own pace, in my own way.

Quoted for the truth!

[Typheous]

And many of us actually like that believe it or not. I have zero interest in multiplayer, ladders, seasons, etc. I don’t play games to compete, I play them to enjoy them at my own pace, in my own way.

It would depend on how it was done for me. Competition just regarding PvE is silly, since time is the main factor. I like the D3/PoE season stuff only for the events, flat resets for the sake of it seem pointless.

[Paavo]

And many of us actually like that believe it or not. I have zero interest in multiplayer, ladders, seasons, etc. I don’t play games to compete, I play them to enjoy them at my own pace, in my own way.

I understand that and often times I’m in the same camp, but I also understand that is not very conducive to increasing the popularity of a game. I can’t even imagine how poorly this game would have done without it’s relationship to Titan Quest.