Kay.
continues tilling soil
a discussion can have different opinions, not just people nodding in agreement, and so far you seem to be the one who cannot handle that…
@ Khaop
As a representative of GD nobility maybe you could enlighten us peasants as to what exactly you propose. If you find it disturbing that there’s is a discrepancy between crit chance and how pth is calculated from the difference between oa and da, then how else would you calculate it?
See, it so happens that some of the people who disagree with you in this thread have been known to play this game for years and complete, sometimes post, multiple builds. And most of them agree that efficiently dealing with high level content such as bosses and nemeses should be reserved to high level builds. Builds that don’t have trouble with stacking oa. You evidently do have this problem or you wouldn’t be making such complaints. Please learn about game mechanics before you jump out complaining about it.
The system isn’t flawed. You not liking it doesn’t make it flawed. Your opinions are not fact.
If he’s not critting, he doesn’t have enough OA, indicative of a sucky build. Silence boy, your build sucks.
The “flaw” is in his/her build not in the system.
Check by peasant
Woke up on the wrong side of the bed today? :rolleyes:
The peasants are right though. Bosses are bosses for a reason. As in any other game that has bosses, they are much harder than regular enemies. In Grim Dawn, bosses have high DA, which you must counter with high OA to reliably beat them. Maybe you should discuss how to get that high OA. Or, if you don’t like those mechanics at all, discuss a different approach. Instead you are “whiteknighting” for OP in a way that can’t be taken seriously.
I absolutely agree that the crit mechanic could do improving in a potential sequel. Like, say, with a base crit chance.
I’d very much prefer if there was a chance to build a character that has both good crits and a chance to miss. Yes, against the same enemies.
Crit being purely tied to chance to hit is kind of sad, and limits options and build diversity.
I’m not sure there even is a build where stacking OA isn’t a great idea.
That said, A) that’s a bit late now, isn’t it?
and B) The way an opinion is delivered can vastly change the way it is received.
This thread is a great example of that.
Let’s take a look at what a critical hit is. It’s a well-placed hit on an enemy’s vital point. How are you going to be good at aiming for a precise point if you aren’t good at aiming at all?
Agreed, I would prefer a critical hit system that is a bit more flexible than the current OA stacking which is kind of mandatory for most if not all builds.
For Grim Dawn 2 at least, the current system is not gonna change and I’m fine with that. At least it makes building somewhat straightforward 
Good point. Maybe it could work if enemies had a Dodge/Deflect/Block chance that is compared to the player’s Chance to Hit, independent from Chance to Crit? Crits could be a “guaranteed hit” that bypasses those enemy defense mechanisms (eg. you swing at the enemy, which dodges the swing but your superiour swinging skills allow you to use the momentum and hit the enemy regardless). This way a player could still deal crits even if the enemy is dodging/deflecting/blocking regular hits. Just some random ideas, I hope this makes sense.
pure lucky shot…
I personally don’t mind the idea of lucky-shot crits, aka consistent crit levels. It does fit in with Crate’s rng-to-everything mantra.
But I also like to see mobs get the same mechanics as players - which is already a big community complaining point in some cases. Many players don’t like being debuffed or crit or dangerous fight environments.
Maybe GD2.
Sooo a system where you have a base chance to crit, witj chance to hit and where enemies havr chance to dodge, but you have a chance of nondodgeable hit? So if i miss i shouldn’t crit, but if i miss and he dodges and i hit a nondodged hit can i crit? Im confused.
Sarcasm off. Proposed things seems like OA vs DA with extra steps. The game doesn’t need to be like any other ARPG on market when you stack trifecta and you are golden. Still, it already looks this way and OA vs. CC is really just a tip of how complicated the whole system is.
You could imagine a system where OA and crits are split, and OA is responsible for hit or miss(i guess) or other effects on hit (deadly strike, crushing blow etc) so you can choose if you want to max OA, crits or both.
But it isn’te the case and unless you want to rewrite pretty nicely balanced game from scratch, i say add some OA to your build.
There will always be people who prefer it one way or another. Some people think of critical shots as pure lucky shots, possibly due to the natural 20 from d20 PnP RPGs being critical hits and always hitting (lucky roll). Others see it as a very precise shot (sniper shot), those that played any game with targetting allowing “eye” shot with huge bonus to crit chance will consider crit in this way.
I’m in the 2nd group and GDs crit system seems a lot more natural to me than those systems allowing you to stack crit chance but ultimately i don’t think one way of doing it is objectively better than the other and in the end we have to accept to play the game with it’s rules or play another game. Both options have pros and cons.
I don’t really think it reduces build diversity thought. Instead of stacking crit chance in GD, you have to stack OA well above what you need to simply hit if you want to make a crit build. That’s not fundamentally different from stacking crit chance when you could instead stack more flat damage or defence. The choice is the same, simply a single stat (OA) is used as both your “hit chance” and your “crit chance” depending how high it is and you have to choose how much you want to invest in it.
The only issue i see is the one AbbieCat mentioned that you loose crit chance when you actually need it (against bosses). That being said in most games i’ve played where crit chance is a separate entity there are enemies with crit resistance or any other word to say that they are less vulnerable to crits, and bosses are usually among those enemies. I think the real way of considering it is to think that if you can’t crit a boss, you don’t have a crit chance at all, as if you invested 0 points into your separate “crit” stat. Trash is trash and will fall no matter what you do so they are better ignored when building a toon.
The system isn’t flawed, it works exactly like it is suppose to.
Your opinion it sucks doesn’t make it flawed, just means you don’t like it.
Topic turned right direction, my job is done. Even if it was a bit harsh. In almost fact i did wake up under my bed today…
As far as topic goes, i didn’t start it, so i don’t have a thought through solution, but apparently others also have seen problems with it so it’s good you discussed it. Personally the only thought i communicated on solution here was if it was not possible to bring boss DA closer to monsters(if disparity is too big) while also increasing boss hp.
The main effects of which would be crit more stable performance across the board, tanks relatively slower boss killspeed, crit builds relatively slightly better boss killspeed, but mainly tanks take that hit as hp increase should be almost offset the crit-build gains from reduced boss DA. However look my signature, the damage gains from crit aren’t enormous so it’s not a big hit to tanks. Interestingly, this is the simplest solution of them all and doesn’t require changing any base systems.
But i have already mentioned this solution, and you skipped right past it. I say what is right.
I disagree with this. This can work for a game that is designed that way from the ground up, but in GD as in most games PCs have fundamentally different stats than NPCs. I fired up Grimtools and two of the first enemies on the list are: “Boomer” Slocum and “Moneybags” Martin who are both human with like 500,000 and 900,000 health respectively. Compared with the Taken who caps out at like 30,000? That’s pretty inequal, so I think in the big picture it’s fair for us to have abilities that they don’t have.
The real type of problems with this comes out when you are playing a build finding it hard to get enough OA to be a serious crit build, but also doesn’t rely on crit for damage only for uptime on procs for example assassins mark.
Say, you have a build where you are able to get 2800 offensive power only without seriously gimping the core functionality(and coolness) of the build. This gives you a 17% crit chance against most bosses and almost 16% against nemesis, enough for uptime on assassins mark. Then you take the same build to super bosses and suddenly you have 1% crit and can’t keep uptime on it. And you aren’t a “crit” build, you just get shafted by the way things are done - your skills just stop working from boss to boss, beyond the simple damage reduction increased boss DA gives.
Because of this double dipping on breaking mechanically the way your char functions + damage reduction, i think one should be careful with too big DA disparities. Just my opinion. And then you can say, ohhh yea but accept reality and if you want crit get more oa, but what you are saying is an excuse - you are suggesting to circumvent bad design rather than tackling it.
However, that said, i find boss DA values that are mostly around 2150-2250 to be fairly set, you do need that 2600-2800 oa to use crit procs which is a number that can be achieved on most well constructed builds.
IMO, if you are relying on crits in some manner, then you have a “crit build”. And frankly, superbosses are supposed to be really damn hard. I don’t have any experience with them personally, but I frequently see people saying that you have to specifically build for superbosses; They aren’t meant for general purpose builds.
From a peasant:
Then you take the same build to super bosses and suddenly you have 1% crit and can’t keep uptime on it.
Ravager? Mogdrogen? Of which super bosses are we talking?
Super Bosses need a special setup. Perhaps some builds won´t kill them even with that. But this is okay because of the “super”.
The OP isn´t talking about super bosses. He talks about “normal” bosses and compares them with the trash mobs he encounters. He has 3.X % Crit Chance on bosses so please tell me:
Flawed system or flawed build?
It’s your opinion, not a fact. So no, you are not saying “what is right” here, you just don’t like how OA and DA is handled in this game.
And really, you are using superbosses as an example? You need highly specialized builds to kill them, it goes way beyond this. One of the builds that kills them doesn’t even rely on OA, it’s retal.