Why I quit GD after just 3 Characters with the new DLC

Grim Dawn General Discussion
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Hello Everyone,

I want to state that the new DLC was amazing! Great things to say about it.
But I am done with it for now… I might come back? I mostly just want to help grim dawn 2 when it comes out.
Why did I quit? Because I started playing TQ Retold. Now a lot of people will think that is a very odd excuse but… how does this relate at all to Grim Dawn?
Well… I leveled in total like 5 or 6 characters to 82+ and only 1 of them to 100, 2 I ended up deleting so it was in total just 3 characters I staid with. My last one is a minion build that is really fun. All builds are fun, I have 40+ builds saved to my phone I want to play… but I just don’t want to level a new character. I have a headache every time I think of making a new character. That should send alarms to you about how bad it is. I get every ARPG is different and if you don’t like the style you should just not play and go find something else, which is 99% of what anyone says or responds to on video game forums. I mostly don’t even read comments mostly just provide raw feedback. But I feel everything about Grim Dawn’s process from 1 to about 75/80 is disfunctional. After that I honestly feel like I am playing GD again and I am okay with that. What is it that makes it so bad? I can’t decribe it but I have put about 10 hours into a new character playing TQRetold mod and I have had so much fun getting to level 18, farming relics and charms, I played TQ vanilla to 40 someting before and finished 3 acts but yeah. I feel like I am actually progressing from one area to the next. I feel like every level matters, I feel like I don’t have to difficulty swap constantly to level… Everything in the game feels… natrual? Almost like TL2, going from 1 to 50 is pretty normal, I don’t back track to complete things. Like Devotions is a huge issue for me, the constant going around finding them when leveling a new character with a merit just feels… awful? I can’t decribe the feeling because GD wants you to speedlevel almost, with the lore note trick and exp potions which is not that bad but its not good. If you aren’t doing it, why are you wasting 3 or 4 hours going 1-33? You can probably do that even faster if you are speed running I am sure I am slower than most people when leveling up in grim dawn. Which is okay, I am a casual player not a 1-94 in 7 hours. Maybe that is an issue for me but not for more.

I really wish I could put into words why it is so fun playing TQ from 1 to 18. But it is way more fun than I had at all with the new DLC. I have made about 6 or 7 characters on TQ so it wasn’t anything new to me. Retold is more of a balance mod anyways, so it didn’t change a lot until you get to about 40’s. That’s more so what it does IMO. But I feel like I personally did not get a lot out of the DLC. Again, amazing and fun, love all the new items , new builds made possible, I just can’t find myself to even finish my last build it’s sitting at 60 and I can’t open the game. I want to finish the build… I just dislike the leveling process soooooooo much I am done with GD for a while I might come back and try again. But I will be playing TQ more for now and other games with my limited time until I just can push myself and talk myself into getting through 1-94. Because grim dawn starts at level 94, the rest is just filler.

Edit: I forgot to mention a lot of people will post the same response as anyone else “don’t do that” or “don’t play that way” or “just play your own way” type responses… these are very… odd consdering I am playing TQ1 with what was given. GD Gives you that as like here is the pre-game to speed level 1-94. So the point still stands rather you go either way, it feels horrible to play even normally without merits or speedleveling. I don’t think I made that super clear.

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when was the last time you didn’t do this?
Because the way i’m reading your post about how levels dont’ matter and devo shrine issue, it kinda sound like trying to speed level is the cause/part of your gripe :thinking: - in which case simply don’t, and level regularly/“enjoy the journey”(instead of rushing to end)

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On the other end of the spectrum. Titan Quest’s leveling is excruciating slow and grueling. Takes forever to get levels about halfway through, and this issue is made worse about the fact that you get the same from levels like you do in Grim Dawn. But because Grim Dawn leveling is faster, you feel the power increase much quicker.

In Grim Dawn, i can make the leveling as slow or as fast as i want. In Titan Quest, i can’t do shit about it, unless i use exp mods.

And last, i will add that it’s weird to claim you have limited time to play but still prefer Titan Quest’s much slower leveling process. You’d think Grim Dawn’s would fit those type of people better.

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To add to this. I take my time, enjoy the scenery and explore every inch when leveling up. It’s a beautiful game with great quests. No point in rushing to the endgame.

I’ve also been playing since slightly before v1 (or maybe it’s exactly the full release), and I’ve never encountered issues with level ups. I’ve also played both the Torchlight games, Svarog’s Dream, Van Helsing, and Diablo, I don’t see Grim Dawn being any worse than the other titles.

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Leveling up in GD is definitely not a chore (or a bore!) unless you speed level. Adding to this is the process of gaining Devotion points. This is akin to having another “level up” since you get points usually between character levels. Completing a constellation or getting a new skill can really change how your character plays in GD…

So try doing what others suggested and take your time to check everything out!

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One of my fondest memories of early GD was binding Falcon Swoop to my DAR and seeing a bunch of birds shoot out from my attacks.

Discovering what each devotion proc does with different builds was quite a treat. Spear of the Heavens continues to be my favorite looking proc.

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As a Titan Quest veteran and builds creator back in the days , I can tell Titan Quest gameplay is very buttery . Most of the masteries stays single target for good portion of the beginning . Green affixes outscale 90% of the epic and legendary items , you can buy any “Veteran” Armor around level 18 and slap Eye of Horus and that will outscale any epic drop . Hale Stonebinders Cuffs of Alacrity / any speed affix outscale 90% of the gloves at any stage of the game , hale rings of immortality also . You can stack abysmal strength on some classes

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One shotting 3x Hades on my Titan Conqueror (1800 strength )with mostly green items from the shop , I don’t have to grind even . Titan quest has a lot of flaws in the engine as well . Some of the Jewelrys mods and charms can make you Immortal against certain bosses , I used to have a lot of pairs on swap when farming Hydra , Thalos etc . Titan quest is a great game but Grim dawn is even greater because proper balance and constant work for balance

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I mean, to each their own. I find lvls 1-94 to be some of the richest in GD, before your items are overloaded with strong skill modifiers, you feel your build coming together piece by piece.

The game before and after you have your core gear or set is so drastically different. I’ve always felt the build profession in GD is quite good!

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And in my experience much more difficult… At level 90 or 92 without the shiny end game gear (lvl 94 stuff) it is much more difficult to play the game to get to 94 because of the lack of said gear. To me, the true mettle of a player is not romping in end game gear but rather leveling up to the position where the romping can begin.

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Could also be the difference in the worlds themselves. TQ is a much brighter world if you like compared to GD. I know some players over the years have given up on GD because they don’t like the gloomy, gritty, apocalyptic world it’s set in.

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Grim Dawn really only has it for the first act. You could make a case that the name of the game is kind of misleading, because a lot of it is actually pretty bright.

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Few of my friends drop the game because the scenes in Malmouth and some of the gore scenes in Dark vale Village , post apocalypse games are not everyone for sure

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Not sure why even putting effort into responding to this topic, but oh well.

I find it somewhat odd, after checking out TQRetold which seemingly even reduce the exp-gain and make a bigger gap and you also pointing out about ‘Leveling’ and ‘Meaningfull’, while then dismiss that by Grim Dawn because of you utilizing Tools which speeds up the process.

Stuff like the Exp via Lorenotes isn’t really directly pushed at you, but that’s how the community optimized the lvl process, and stuff like Exp Pots,Lokarr and what not are tools as an option for people who want to level faster, since they care more about endgame. It’s not mandatory and as someone who started over again on Xbox i can tell you, it still feels weighty if you play normally. I get -there are certain instances where Options can play around the psychology and effect the experience, which is why i’m strictly against stuff like respeccing your whole class,because as you said you want to have an MEaningfull Choice.
But this is just such an odd weird way to approach this instance/concept.

That also kinda highlight and prove Medea, Zantai, the team right with the approach of not going with ‘Infinite Stash’ because it’s another layer of infantalizing gamers since they have no impulse control and can ruin the games for themself if there is not a strong hand in the back which limits or restrict them.

I just dunno - for me the whole post reads - while sure you may enjoy GD, it may just not resonate/click with/for you to the extent you may think or hope for. Because the whole post reads a bit contradictory where at one hand you complain about Grim Dawns ‘Speedlevling’ and what not, which would suggest the devs would’ve tone down these features a bit, but at the other hand you already complain that you find it’s a drag to go through the Devotions again and so on.

Maybe it’s just me, maybe that’s also why i always had a quite different take on the Diablo 3 Atmosphere because of that as well, - but i’m someone who find there is a distinction between something being actually colorfull/bright and what not, or something being fully directed towards a bright design (with a lack of grittyness etc).

I get where you are coming from that’s also the reason why i sometimes have to shake my head when people push the idea that Crate lost it touch with FG and FoA if it comes down to the ‘atmosphere’ because for these people GD peaked with AoM and they perceive that this was the whole identity of GD. But in reality if you play through the basegame is absolutely varied, which is why i’d argue FoA is much of an ‘Expansion’ to the basegame experience as AoM. The only outlier is FG.

However as pointed out, there is a difference something being brigher or actually brighter designed. To go back to Diablo 3, let all potential bias aside which someone may have. - do fairly and reasonable compare it to something like Torchlight 2 - even if D3 is ‘colorfull’ it still is darker and more gritty designed.
If you compare the brighter areas of Grim Dawn (even FG) and compare it TQ, - both may ‘bright’ but in it’s whole tone, artdesign, atmosphere, approach etc GD is just much grittier then Titan Quest. Even FG. (And FG is adapting some ‘vibes’ of TQ).

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I couldn’t agree more if I tried.

Someone posted the % amount of people on Steam that made it to level 100 and it was really low, so you are not the only one.

I remember when the base game went live. It was great because I was on a break from WoW and TQ filled that gap perfectly, even the xpack. I could play it online or offline. I did both, a lot.

It’s a really awesome game? Because of TQ, I like GD a ton. I just wished I heard of it before Covid. If I remember correctly, FG was already live when I started playing.

Same. That’s why I like offline games more than online games. I can play fast or slow as I see fit and I can take multiple breaks throughout the day because, as much fun as it is to play computer games, there is thing called reality and Murphy is the lord and master.

If you need to take a break and come back to it with a fresh mind, go for it. Sometimes that’s what the doctor ordered, and more cow bell of course. Heck, I have taken at least 3 breaks since I started playing this game, one stretch was a couple of years. Yeah, other games filled the void, but so did life. This current gaming session? I have logged in over 1500 hours. W T F ? WOW! More that 1000+ are pre FoA too.

Most likely. No need to ruch tho. Enjoy life, even if that is playing another game. Ironically, I was playing TQ again when Covid first started, then I segwayed to D3, and stopped off at GD. When I found out that the character structure was the same as TQ, I was happier than a piggy in puddle of mud.

Lastly. For me, that’s what cemented the game. The collection of devotion points and spending them to complete constellations was a major wow factor. Talk about a game within a game. My slight gripe is the cap at 55 points. At that point I am really diggen’ it and by the low to mid 70’s, it’s done. WHAT? No more? Bummer. I guess the shrines will be mini loot pinatas and small exp boosts. Of course I WANT MOAR!!! Gimme gimme gimme gimme. That’s akin to reaching into the freezer and the Hot Pockets are gone or going in the snack cabinet and you Twinkies are gone. Oh, long string of curse words. Anyway, I can understand that portion of the game isn’t for everyone and some even opt to bypass it altogether.

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Looking at the OP’s post history heavily evoked this imagery:

Even if we agree with the crux of his complaints (that being the whole “going through Normal to Elite to Ultimate feels bad and leveling feels dysfunctional to play”), I don’t understand how customers think that “you need to recreate the entire game from the ground up” is something people reasonably expect Crate to actually implement.

At least he’s nice enough to provide Titan Quest as a example of what he considers something to strive for. But he directly states in the OP that he doesn’t bother reading our responses to his OP’s, so what are we all doing here?

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We’re “providing raw feedback”, what else? :smiley:

And the whole approach to it is really weird:

  • GD leveling process sucks, and is a waste of time, and bad for all kinds of reasons.
  • TQ leveling process is so fulfiling, and just a joy, and great to get to level 18

Like… bro, it’s the exact same process.
And the reasons mentioned above? Availability of xp potions and merits, and difficulty unlocks. And a lack of self control. “If something’s available to expedite things, it’s a waste of time not to use it.”
By that reasoning, if TQ had XP potions and a couple of other QoL speed leveling methods, OP would hate it too.
Granted, there is merit in appreciating a journey without shortcuts even being available, the fact that you have to take the time to go through it.
Honestly, the guy probably just got burnt out on GD, and the approach he’s taking with it. And TQ is just something fresh, and new, and different, and doesn’t allow the approach that he hates, and that makes a world of difference to him.

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TQ does have XP potions now, but they’re harder to get hold of and only last for half an hour.

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Hey everyone just an update,
I tried playing GD last night just because I felt it wasn’t fair… I deleted my character it just was so boring going from 60 to 68. I really can’t put into words how bad it was. I didn’t have time to go back to TQRetold but I will be playing that tonight instead. I can’t find it in my will to level another character or try too. I just have so much fun with TQ I am thinking of doing another new character! So excited, well anyways I don’t know how to provide exact feedback of why I deleted my character but it just felt out of place. I finished “shrine hopping” and got 55 shrines and “completed” that part of the build, you would think “okay yeah we are progressing” but about that time I know it was time to switch to ultimiate and boom I am back at DC going through act 1… Yeah I went to warden krieg and it was kinda fun for maybe 30 minutes to run to him but after that the sense of disappointment looking at what I have to do now to redo everything again, I feel like on my last 10 or so characters I have done this crap again and again, shrine hop, difficulty swap, quest until you feel ready man TQ structure just feels so nice compared to this. It is sad… but after about 800 hours (mostly with just vanilla, AOM and 180-200 hours somewhere in FG) I am done with GD. It was a good run, I personally only played about 15 or 20 hours of the new DLC. So 1 dollar for an hour or 2 of “fun”. The game has offically felt like a slide show is the best way to describe it, cut, next act, cut, redo, almost like I am a director of a movie, let’s jump to this scene in GD tune in next time lol wish I had words to describe the disappointment I have. Again, I want to say the new DLC story, concept and everything amazing, I will never downplay what Crate has made as I put 800 hours into the other parts of the game. Just… 1-94 is like watching paint dry to me at this point. I only hope that in GD2 that they find more structure. I also think maybe slowing down the levels would help maybe, as TQ is extremely slow compared to GD.
I decided to read what people have said for once because I did decide to try and play again and figured it would be nice to see if maybe I can make it to 94 but last night was so boring playing 60-68, I can’t even remember if I went to 70 that was how like lost and disappointed I just deleted him after moving everything off.

Much love Crate, you did truely make one of the best ARPG of all time. You have done well to listen to community feedback, and if you are reading this I feel I got my money’s worth of GD after 800 hours. I will say I am not happy with the new DLC, feeling like it wasn’t apart of the game but more of DLC and filler after level 100, but I remember you stating you inteded it to be for 100+? All I have to say is… Ulgrim ? That’s right… Ulgrim. Hope to see you all in GD2 to provide more feedback. Everything about AoM and FG was fantastic. AOM stands as the best DLC IMO, and FG very close behind it if you care to know my thoughts just reach out Crate.

Thank you community for your post as I am signing off after deleting my characters (most of them), as I have no interest in going to 100 anymore. Yes, somehow I am very happy going from 1-85 in TQ, not sure why…

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He returns! :partying_face:

The sad part about all this is the moment where you describe how much fun you have at the 94-100 range, but then you delete your characters when they’re level 70 or so. That’s the definition of self-sabotage!

Just letting you know, OP, there’s nothing wrong with using GDStash, making copies of your Level 100 characters, and limiting your gameplay in the level range that’s the most fun for you. IMO, the concept of optimal lore note XP tricks + difficulty swapping for maximum gain is a textbook example of “optimizing the fun out of something;” if it’s not fun, don’t do it! Find the things that are fun and stick to them!

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Personally, it’s not even the leveling process that keeps me away from Titan Quest. Everything just feels lesser than Grim Dawn, from the combat feel, to the skills, the amount of depth, the enemy variety (this one is huge, Titan Quest’s enemy variety is really bad) the build variety, the items, and many other things.

Titan Quest just feels like a beta at this point, even with the anniversary edition and the THQNordic expansions, and the reason i pretty much stopped playing it for the most part. I do like one playthrough every three or four years, really just for nostalgia sake.

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