I stumbled upon the WPS thingy by accident and I really don’t understand how it works. I have read a few posts here and there, but it doesnt make much sense to me.
I have a blademaster using Cadence. I added 3 dual wield skills (at 20% chance) from nightblade “tree” and 2 from soldier tree (at 20% chance) and I understand now that these are WeaponPoolSkills.
I was under the initial impression that cadence being my default attack, would “proc” these attacks, but now im not so certain anymore. Some posts say that having 5x20% “procs” (=100%) means that the default attack (cadence) never works?!
Am I missing out on damage modifiers from cadence or is it a complete waste speccing into cadence as default attack?
Yes cadence is not the best choice for wps builds, but not in the way you think. Cadence itself overrides any wps you could trigger, so 2/3 attacks will be a wps, the 3rd will always be cadence.
Cadence will always work so don’t worry about it. It should just override one of the WPS hits when it triggers.
By hits I mean one of the hits during a WPS attack. So for example if you trigger Amarasta’s Quick Cuts, that’s three hits. The first of the 3 hits will be Cadence and the second two will be usual AQC.
As it happens, Cadence used to have greater synergy with some WPS, namely any multi-hit ones (not AoE, but those that apply multiple different instances of damage). It used to be that each of those ‘attacks’ from one WPS would build up a Cadence charge and/or activate the Cadence strike; that enabled you to activate multiple Cadence strikes in the space of one attack, which was far too powerful indeed. This is now no longer the case; one WPS proc = one Cadence charge.
You know i meant overpowered on top of Cadence, not on its own. And even on its own, it can deal some heavy damage. My non-AA crappy Cold BM popped 180k in each hand when the level cap was 85. That’s 360k damage.
AFAIK the mechanics of Cadence changed many times thus the confusion. For a long time the consensus was that Cadence and WPS was meh. Then someone found out (that’s in the thread I couldn’t find) that WPS quickened charging Cadence, that Cadence and WPS can proc on the same strike (main and the offhand), and basically that WPS and Cadence is great.
I did a test where I took different WPS configurations and counted how many times cadence fell on the second and how many on the third strike. It showed that only AQC (didn’t test tacticians) quickens charging Cadence beyond what dualwielding already does. Other WPS (seemed to) have nothing to do with how often Cadence falls on the second strike. It also showed that Cadence and WPS can indeed proc on the same strike. With AQC at full 20% it did happen maybe once in few dozen strikes that two Cadences fell one right after another. Thus it must have been Cadence on main and AQC on the offhand so that the 2 leftover AQC hits charged the next Cadence immediately.
I understand what you are saying, but damn… these should be pretty basic skill mechanics and noone knows how they actually work
So WPS might actually be fine… or atleast AQC might be useful. Maybe you need 100% WPS, but only the dual wield ones?
That is why I call it illogical (or rather un-intuitive) game mechanics.
Well I probably shouldn’t start a fight with hardcore fans, so I’ll just leave it at: I’m personally really disappointed that skills and game mechanics lack proper descriptions, especially when they are not logical.
For some reason this insight totally killed my enjoyment with my blademaster. Hope I don’t get similar insight on savagery vs primal strike so my shaman also dies
Don’t give up and go Belgothian. Simple. Effective. No Cadence.
Regarding the intuitiveness of descriptions, I agree it might be a little bit improved but generally I support Crate’s policy to keep things short. I would hate to have to scroll through pages of compound-complex sentences describing stats like in PoE.
Even then with poe, many things are still not explained or certain things use incorrect wording for the same stat and you have to read every wiki and reddit post looking for an answer.
No. First lets get the terminology right. A hit is each time you deal damage during an attack. So for AQC you get 3 hits during that 1 attack. For Shears, WD and Execution it’s two hits for each of those attacks.
So your example would be like this:
first attack = random WPS of the 5 WPS skills I have.
second attack = random WPS of the 5 WPS skills I have
3rd attack = cadence + WPS - One of the hits during this attack will be cadence the remaining hit(s) will be the WPS
Also it is possible to charge cadence during a cadence + WPS attack.
So you can get something like
Attack 1: Cadence + WPS
Attack 2: WPS
Attack 3: Cadence + WPS
ETC.
In general Cadence + WPS is confusing because it is also bugged. If you do delayed attacks you get different results to attacking at full speed. Additionally the cadence icon doesn’t always discharge when used.
No. Cadence will work fine with them, go for it and have fun. If you want something understandable though, go for Belgothian.
I’m not sure belgothian makes it easier to understand lol.
Cadence description says it “magnifies every 3rd weapon strike”. With dual wield, I would assume - if you break it into swings/hits - right hand, left, right (cadence goes off), left, right, left (cadence goes off).
First question: Does it mean Cadence magnifies whatever skill is up or that Cadence itself “procs”
I initially planned my blademaster with Markovian Advantage 20%, Zolhan 20%, B-Sheers 20%, AQC 20%, Whirling Death 20% - under the impression they would proc randomly on each default attack (=cadence).
Soldier techniques are 1 swing and dual wield skills are 2 swings (except AQC), right?
Like this:
MA = 1 swing
Zolhan = 1 swing
B-sheers = 2 swings
AQC = 3 swings
Whirling = 2 swings
So with 100% WPS let me just throw some examples out there:
swing - right hand - AQC “procs” + (cadence charge)
swing - left hand - AQC (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - AQC + cadence BOOM
swing - left hand - B-Sheers “procs” (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - B-Sheers (+ cadence charge)
swing - left hand - Zolhan “Procs” + cadence BOOM
Or
swing - right hand - AQC “procs” + (cadence charge)
swing - left hand - AQC (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - AQC (cadence “waits” for next hit)
swing - left hand - Cadence Boom
swing - right hand - B-Sheers (+ cadence charge)
swing - left hand - B-Sheers (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - Cadence Boom
swing - left hand - Zolhan “Procs” (+ cadence charge)
Or
swing - right hand - AQC “procs” + (cadence charge)
swing - left hand - AQC (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - Cadence Boom
swing - left hand - AQC (cadence charge)
swing - right hand - B-Sheers (+ cadence charge)
swing - left hand - Cadence Boom
swing - right hand - B-Sheers (+ cadence charge)
swing - left hand - Zolhan “Procs” (+ cadence charge)
swing - right hand - Cadence Boom
Or (this doesnt fit the cadence description though)
(1. attack = 1. cadence charge)
swing - right hand - AQC “procs”
swing - left hand - AQC
(2. attack = 2. cadence charge)
swing - right hand - AQC
swing - left hand - B-sheers “procs”
(3. attack = Cadence Boom)
swing - right hand - B-Sheers
swing - left hand - Cadence Boom
(4. attack = 1. cadence charge)
swing - right hand - Zolhan “Procs”
swing - left hand - B-Sheers “procs”
(5. attack = 2. cadence charge)
swing - right hand - B-Sheers
swing - left hand - B-Sheers “procs”
(6. attack = Cadence)
Belgothian’s Strikes is a default attack replace you get from the Belgothian’s set. It works like firestrike or savagery, not like Cadence. Much easier interaction with WPS
Cadence itself procs.
I think you should take Execution.
Not sure about soldier WPS, my testing was limited to Nightblade WPS.
None of your examples are quite right,
attack
AQC (right hand) - Cadence charge
AQC (Left hand)
AQC (right hand)
attack
B-Sheers (Left hand) - Cadence charge
B-Sheers (right hand)
attack
Whirling Death (Left hand) - Cadence hit*
Whirling Death (right hand) - Cadence charge**
attack
B-Sheers (Left hand) - Cadence charge
B-Sheers (right hand)
attack
Execution (Left hand) - Cadence hit*
Execution (right hand) - Cadence charge**
The damage range for these hits are the same no matter the WPS animation, confirming that Cadence does not interact with WPS damage.
** This charge is only a possibility not certain. One of the suggestions is that when you proc a dualwield, you can charge the cadence while expending it in the same attack, even when your dualwield proc is overwritten by a WPS proc. Dualwield is 50% both weapons 25% left or 25% right.
Lack of points and probably lack of knowing what skills to prioritise
Would have to ditch Cadence completely and more importantly deadly momentum, which gives a very nice punch on all attacks (both to cadence and WPS), right?
Cadence description says, “…every 3rd single weapon strike”. When dual wielding wouldn’t that mean every 3 swings? and not every 3 “skill-attacks”?!
However from your explanation I can see how ya_ would sometimes see 2 cadence in a row. Procing Cadence on 1st AQC swing, would proc cadence on next attack.
Overall does seem buggy. Chances of getting some mechanics that make sense are probably not that high anymore.
This is an old post, but I am posting a reply here because it came up on the search as I was having my own doubts. I am new player and this is my understanding of cadence after trying dual ranged tactician and dual melee Blade master HCSSF –
Not considering any damage type and/or available modifiers etc , Cadence is the best Default Weapon Attack skill because it deals 100% default attack damage on Hit1,Hit2 and Then it’s CADENCE on HIT3 . which can be cycled back faster if we stack attack speed.
When dual wielding , cadence is calculated separately for each Hand . So ,
WPS proc faster when using cadence.
Multiple hit skills like WPS of Nightblade can not proc on the HIT3 but if PROCed on HIT2 or even HIT1 can “Carry forward” successive hits and thus can “work” while Hit3 cadence occurs because it was ACTIVATED on Hit1 or Hit2 .
And what stated in point 4 above , is calculated separately for the two weapons while dual wielding.
Note - I refrain from making new threads as long as I find any, already made about matters, close to my concern, so I added my understanding here in reply section . If I wrote anything wrong feel free to correct it , I will be thankful.
You can just go kill Voldrak in Smuggler’s Path and get a relic recipe with a similar skill (albeit weaker). If you’re into Aether damage, you can kill Theodin Marcell for his weapon.
Or you can try a different mastery combination - Shaman, Demolitionist and Oathkeeper all have default attack skills, that work better with WPS, than Cadence.
Though my personal opinion is that WPS dualwielding builds are on the weaker side in this game, especially when leveling, or without BiS endgame gear.
