A meaningful restriction would be to have a single skill running down the center of each class with a single weapon restriction. That is the “Class skill”, it is constructed so that only the primary class can make effective use of it. It defines being that class, and yes, it associates each main class with a weapon type. If you are going to do it for one then why not for all? The remaining skills support the main class, and they branch enough so that an occultist can be supported by taking soldier secondary as soldier is by taking occultist secondary.
Let Cadence be the main sword and board skill, let the Rifle toting commando blitz, maybe even change the name to Bayonet Rush and mod the animation if selected by a commando. Elemental Fury if taken by an Arcanist. Modify its parameters to reflect the main classes abilities. Longer cooldowns, less damage for a caster, so that it is more functional as a quick move away from a tight spot than a rush into a mob.
There is no end to how the classes and abilities could combine. Instead as a soldier you take occultist to get the Chaos weapon damage buff/modifier, and that is really the end of your foray into the dark mystical realm of the occult. The reverse, taking soldier as an occultist, is pointless.
But that is not how this game works, and the restrictions only serve to ensure that you play the way the class/item was designed. And that is exactly not what the game said it would be.
You can go Poison Caster using Dreeg’s Evil Eye
go with Chaos melee
go with Bleed based WB build
make a physical based melee WB using Cadence or make Forcewave based Physical WB
And lastly even make Vitality Based Sword and Shield Witchblade
Also ,the things you suggest are not doable with a limited budget and on a 10 year old engine
You need to spend more time understanding how builds work in actual practice imo to understand stuff. A lot of stuff might not seem “optimum” to new players on paper but in actual practice most of what you come up with works great. The game offers a great deal of freedom with build construction
Soldier + Occultist works perfectly fine, however you want to integrate them (unlike your proposal that limits this…). If anything you proposal has more / stricter restrictions than the game currently has, yet you complain about the limits they impose on you :rolleyes:
You restriction proposal is no more meaningful. It is more restrictive and at least as arbitrary.
I didn’t say that i wanted it to be this way. You complained that i didn’t explain what meaningful restrictions would be, so I explained. Whether you think they are meaningful or not is unimportant. They are not arbitrary, they form the basis of a structure, a system. But they aren’t a proposal either, just entertaining you to give you a chance to turn around a forget what you said in the previous post.
And how do you make a vitality melee or a chaos melee? Exactly the same way. Soldier class taking witchfire. It is tacked on specifically for the melee classes to dual in an get compound damage of another type. Nothing else in that skill set is going to serve a soldier, and there is nothing for you in soldier if you want to lean more caster, because you are restricted from using much of anything as a caster.
Poision is the only viable skill line for occultist, regardless of who he picks as a dual. Dreggs eye serves the same function as Firestrike, extreme compound damage that makes the rest of the skills pointless. You don’t need to take soldier to be a poision occult.
The summons are there clearly for the shaman, maybe the arcanist, and the hellhound for demolitionist. Anything else and you are wasting your time.
The skill trees are partitioned off like this across the board. Dual classing serves as an attribute buff maybe, but in terms of skills there is exactly ONE additional skill in each class that is designed to cross with a very specific other class. The viable builds are prebuilt in, with weapon restrictions and % damage buffs
You need to learn how DoTs function. You do not require an lmb replacement to have a functional build. Rotational skill builds run rampant. Eg I have a demo bomber with Grenado on LMB and scores easy 90K crits end game. By your logic Firestrike is the only option.
On a serious note and without the slightest intention of offense, i think you might need a bit more GD experience to truly understand some of it’s mechanics and dive deaper into it’s lore to accept some of it’s restrictions, be them based on eather balance or flavor, or (as in the case of Primal Strike) both.
If i look back on what i thought about character building when i was just a few weeks (heck, even a few months) into Grim Dawn compared to what a think now i just can’t stop smiling and shaking my head :).
except that these are no more meaningful than what we have, as I replied…
Whether you think they are meaningful or not is unimportant. They are not arbitrary, they form the basis of a structure, a system.
not really, since you rail about how the ones we have are not meaningful, so you should be able to come up with something more meaningful. What we got instead is just something different… The current ones also form a system, it just is a different, less strict one.
OK, I’ll be the first to admit that the Occultist as a main mastery fucking blows. Its offensive abilities do not synergize with each other and far too much “real estate” is eaten up by buffs.
But you’re neglecting quite a lot. Poison is not the only viable line for occultist. Vitality is great; I’ve made three Vitality Damage Witch Hunter builds (Nightblade + Occultist), one of which was melee and focused heavily on Nightblade, and the other two were casters and focused heavily on Occultist.
DEE is certainly good, sure.
Finally, the Occultist’s pets do not exist solely because of Shaman. In fact, they existed long before Shaman was ever added into the game and frankly no one even knew or expected Shaman to exist, much less for it to be a hybrid pet mastery.
“The skill trees are partitioned off like this across the board.”
Now that is where ill agree, my perception is limited by having only done veteran content. By the skills alone though, I have to wonder what kind of crazy gear you must have to find in order to make that happen, or how crazy some of the affinities are. Its just math, you have abilities that get the global % multiplier and those that also, in addition, have their own % multiplier and often a damage conversion and physical damage and weapon multipliers. The base damage might be lower on the skill and weapon itself, but after you do all the multiplying and conversion the ones that have those built in will always be on top in the end. Compound interest, most powerful force in the universe.
Yes, they are. Soldier is a class unto himself. Really no one benefits from being a soldier, except Demo. The whole ordinance set of skills are “commando” skills, not the Demo, cause if you are playing him right (the demo) you are using guns.
The casters cant make use of any Soldier skill. Night blade and soldier are mutually exclusive by that oh so important weapon theme. Ring of steel maybe, is MADE FOR the soldier, but who cares because the soldier already has every physical type and an asinine number of multipliers and converters and buffs between them. And maybe there is some benefit for crossing shaman and soldier.
The casters have a clear skill set that are their own, the outliers are intended for a melee class to hedge in. The shaman is two classes in itself. Two entirely different skill sets that are almost entirely exclusive to one another with no “synergy” between them. No real mix or gradient between the two. Once I have invested just one or two points in the Lightning orgy that is the thunder shaman set there is no reason to pick skills from the wildcaller part, then I can pick the lightning skills from arcane or the lightning crow from occultist…or stun jacks/flame thouch %lightning damage.
Point is once I pick the one distinct skill set in a class that is “FOR” that class, there is just one other skill in the second class that makes any sense to pick. Because they are partitioned and do not flow together, there is no “synergy” across most of the skill sets of an individual class. Its just most pronounced in the Occultist, but all of them are split up like this to some degree, in some way.
absolute nonsense, I take it you have barely played the game and despite this are convinced you have a valid opinion, well, you do not, you basically just completely disqualified yourself with this post
The casters cant make use of any Soldier skill.
define ‘the casters’, no mastery is purely a caster
Night blade and soldier are mutually exclusive by that oh so important weapon theme.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and well considered rebuttal. Ive been illuminated. Thank you for this masterful display of understanding of the system and for showing me how what I am saying is wrong.
Maybe, but im still going to be butt hurt that I couldn’t dual wield the lightning shaman the way i wanted to. The lore is not important to me really. Why does a shaman need a two handed blade to fight harder? Or to call lightning? Is that extra few feet on the blade really so critical? Im thinking a short blade will be just as good a lightning rod as a long blade, especially one called Stormcallers Blade.
I could have swore for the longest time it was Sith, not Slith. But i like the two g’s so Im going to stick with Dreggs and refuse to see it any other way in game.
take it as me considering it pointless because you are beyond helping. Anyone who says that no one but Demo benefits from taking Soldier has disqualified himself…
The soldier has a LOT to offer other classes besides demo via his passives and his buffs. Blitz is also a great gap closer if you’re playing melee.
Casters can’t make use of ANY soldier skill? You realize that not all casters are ranged, right? Plenty of caster skills are most useful in melee range and can benefit from gap closers, defensive buffs, and the soldier passives. War Cry also reduces the damage of enemies in melee range, and damage reduction is great for all classes. Furthermore, skills like Forcewave ARE caster skills, so it’s silly to say that casters can’t benefit from Soldier when the Soldier mastery itself can be built as a caster.
