So i find a low level epic called stormcallers circlet and another slightly higher level called stormcallers spellblade. Seems geared toward Shaman because the Lightning and the ability bonus. Also have two other one hand electrical epics for Shaman.
So im like cool ill make a Shaman and focus the Lightning skill group and that will be a fun blitz through the early part of the game. Maybe ill get a Bladesworn talisman and dual wield the two powerful ones before I out level the gear.
But no, you cant do that, see, the devs made all of these awesome early low level one handed epics to sync with the Shaman Lightning skill line but saw fit to exclude the use of the items with the one freaking spell that makes a freaking stormcaller a stormcaller. You know, that big beautiful bolt from the hand of zeus himself, Primal Strike. No, you can only use that with Two Handed Weapons.
And don’t say its about balance. The whole Lightning skill group is so op right out of the gate. The first Lightning ability Savagery boosts itself by percentages for crying out loud. And still yet when im done with the three one hands I was going to switch to The Conduit, with 33% Lightning boost and as much physical damage i can convert to lightning with Stormcallers pact. So really, who freaking cares if a player can use Primal Strike with two one hands instead of one two hand? Surely you can balance the skill set in ways other than sucking the joy out of a cool build possibility. Adjusting the percentages perhaps, or not stacking them at the base of the skill set maybe.
Its not homogenizing to have a central concept or focus. Good food is not made by randomly throwing ingredients in the pot and seeing what comes out. You might get a few good mixes but most of them will be duds.
Restrictions are fine, its how they are haphazardly thrown together. A set of items were created that suggests a certain build and then once you put it together you find that it is arbitrarily restricted from being used to its full potential. That’s just downright annoying and it happens more often than not when trying to think of how to build your character. Everything is hyper constrained by the weapon restrictions on the fighter class abilities.
The restrictions either need to be symmetric , or they need to be asymmetric in such a way that they form a ring across all the classes, with the abilities and items built around those restrictions. Either way, you are restricting the number of sensible possibilities by doing so(and also the non-sensible ones), but not as much as by creating arbitrary restrictions. Arbitrary restrictions create way more nonsensible possibilities across the board than sensible ones.
Systems, all sorts, games included, are built from a small set of simple ordered rules for how the parts interact with each other. Complexity arises from that interaction. The rules here often seem arbitrary and lopsided, but most often simply ill considered. Sometimes they interact in absurdly powerful ways, and sometimes parts have no clear interaction with the other parts. There is no order, just someone said “shamans will be two handed”, without considering how that part would interact with the other parts.
The way it is structured, most skill sets are a class skill set and then a bunch of other stuff that the pure class character will never need to use, and most abilities in a class can’t be functionally blended with the other ablities in the class. Its because those other abilities were not intended for that class, Its more like a classes abilities are split up among several classes for the sake of dual classing, than a blended crossover between classes. The class weapon restrictions only serve to magnify that perception as it hems you in to one of a very few possible play styles. Not conducive to trying new things and experimenting, rather you are restricted to a few narrow viable paths across a few classes.
Exactly, and it’s pretty damn obvious that the ones you have specified are for a Lightning caster Shaman using Wind Devil.
I also agree that Shaman should keep some of it’s restrictions. If you’re really that bothered with not using Primal Strike, there is Savagery which works well enough and there are modding tools.
Except the restricted skill in question is a part of the lightning caster shaman skill group. The item is a dagger not a sword(one of the three), making everything in the skill group not really viable except wind devil, everything else has to come from Arcanist. All of which will only partially benefit. Kind of herds you in to a particular style in order to use the weapon doesn’t it? What was that about trying things out and seeing what you come up with? Seems to me I get to try out exactly what someone else came up with. Why must dual classing arcanist exclude me from using certain abilities of my second class? Why isn’t Shaman likewise prohibited from using the most natural skills to pick because he isn’t using a wand? If the only path is to choose arcanist when using wind devil and stormcaller blade, then wind devil is an arcanist skill, misplaced under shaman, and its the dual classing that is the gimmick.
Its the limited skill points that should restrict, not arbitrary barriers.
Why would you pick Arcanist? The character with the best spammable lightning skill is demolitionist. You can always use a lodestone for an extra spammable skill. Shaman’s only spammable castable skill is Devouring Swarm. But that doesn’t bother me. The game makes you think about “what will provide the best synergy”. Let’s not make this a game where no thinking is involved and everything just works.
Because a small blade does not come to mind when considering how to build the one class that is specifically designed for rifles and dual wield pistols. Not to mention I wanted to melee dual wield savagery while raining down thunderous wrath on hoards of zombies in a torrent of wind a lightning. If that is too op its likely because it isn’t very balanced to begin with. And have you ever played Lightning Shaman? Nothing balanced about it.
There is no thinking involved in the builds. Only in so far as to figure out how the developers designed and intended for you to play those classes and that item together. There is no creativity involved on the part of the player. At every turn that creativity is blocked by weapon restrictions or a narrow range of overlap between the skill sets intended to herd you into a particular style of play.
Primal Strike is not a caster skill. It is melee or ranged. As two-handed weapons are as important to the Shaman’s theme as Lightning is, the restrictions should stay. You will not be using Primal Strike as a caster anyway.
I didn’t want to. I wanted to use it as a dual wield. Its the item that forces me to be a caster.
If it is so important to his theme then why can everyone do it, and if dual blades are so important to nightblade then why can everyone build an item that lets them dual wield? The restrictions are arbitrary, and in this case the weapon restriction and the item type actually break the theme of “Stormcaller”, forcing you outside the shaman skills set into skills that aren’t “Stormcaller”.
I still don’t see what’s stopping you from using Dual Wield Savagery except your own levels of perception. Attach Savagery to Reckless Tempest and voila you have a dual wield lightning build that summons thunderbolts on “critical attacks”. What’s more Savagery is the only OA/DA booster in the Shaman tree, it’s worthwhile taking over Primal Strike. The bonuses from Storm Touched synergise with dual wield weapon pool skills from Nightblade. You could easily make a lightning based Trickster. But would have to focus on good sources of OA.
The only thing Primal Strike has early game is AoE.
-Unless it’s a caster off hand, I can’t think of any item that forces you to be a caster
-Primal Strike isn’t a caster skill
-Everyone might be able to Dual Wield but the benefits of it lie mostly with Nightblade (WPS, PB)
Similarly the benefits of going with a two handed weapon lie mostly with Shaman (for Lightning only)
And most notably Shield benefits are restricted to Soldier
-There actually is creativity involved with builds. The developers didn’t intend everything to be used “as it is”. For example certain Scepters such as Olexra’s Chill, Decree of Aldritch can be used for melee
Another example would be the two handed ranged weapon Quillthrower of Dreeg which is intended for a caster and yet is powerful for Acid based Auto Attack builds
-Demolitonist isn’t intended for ranged at all, the “Fire Strike icon” is very misleading that way
It doesn’t support dual wielding pistols at all
Fire Strike happens to have one of the best support for Dual Wield Lightning
-Like Duck King mentioned earlier one of the important things to in this game is to figure out the best use for an item. There exist little items that have been restricted to one specific playstyle
Heck even the most famous Ranged weapon Vortex of Souls is being used by a very impressive theorycrafter to support Casters.
-If you ever feel stuck with a build then the forum members are happy to help since almost all of use were stuck with this game at some point.
I also usually dislike restrictions but the more games I play and think about game design the more I believe good and meaningful restrictions are key to make a game really deep and keep it interesting.
I am not sure why you believe i think it is a caster skill, or that i wish to use it for a caster.
Demolition is by far the best and intended to be the best pistol wielder in the game. There is simply no one else who can stack as much damage into a single gun, let alone two and make as effective use of them from the start of the game. Just cause you say it doesn’t support dual wield does not mean it isn’t so. Its not a matter of it being a default skill, its a matter of having to take demo when dual wielding guns if you want to make the most of it. You might be able to come close with Arcanist/Occultist, but fire strike puts it so over the top every time to such a degree that it is absurd not to dual wield the Demolitionist. Easily 1500 DPS before finishing Crowley on veteran, everything disintegrates. Mobs vanish before they even walk onto the map. I don’t know if it scales that way into higher difficulty but for veteran i feel like im wasting time if I play a demolitionist any other way. The other skills feel tacked on as a joke in light of the power of two handguns boosted by Firestrike and Flametouch. Throw in the similar skill from Arcanist or Occultist for a little flair on your idle animation, but its not really required.
Meaningful ones, i would agree. Well designed restrictions to me are more like the demolition. Its not that he has to dual wield the pistols, it simply makes the most sense for him to do so. But there is nothing stopping you from trying other things out, to see what works…like the game was advertised.
-Inaccurate since Soldier packs the most power into a single gun, although Cadence doesn’t support dual wield of any form
-Other skills do you mean Grenado, Stun Jacks and Blackwater Cocktail? They happen to be some of the strongest skills in the game which beat Fire Strike in terms of Quality of Life
-You are correct that demolitionist supports ranged well though mainly due to Brimstone
-In veteran pretty much every skill can decimate the content, the real worth of the skill is determined in Ultimate
