[] Vindictive Flame Retaliation Commando -> CR 5:00/ SR 100/ Crate boss + Ravager/ 75-76 farmer

Hello, it’s my next retaliation build but concept is new, at least I did not see anyone posted anything similar. It’s commando using Vindictive Flame + Counter strike + Vire cascade + Flame Breath to melt enemies. Results were very good in all content, build is very safe and fast (and can be even safer with few cosmetic changes like crystals in jewelery or physique dump for HC players).


Choices I want to explain:
Helmet - Mask of Infernal Truth is BiS and better than Callagadra because of Flame Breath with 42% rata. We are lacking active retaliation skills so utilizing as many resources as possible outside of skill tree is needed to have good clearing speed.

Belt and medal - we need high OA to crit and resistances so these stats are way to go.

Armor - this choice due to additional rata (and elemental retal converted into physical) is fastest option from my tests but if you don’t want to fight for every single second in Crucible just go for Dread Armor of Azragor - it gives physical resistance + lifesteal and Ravager can be facetanked without pharma. Was around 10 average seconds slower in crucible and ravager but tankier.

Crucible 5:00 2+4 setup

SR 100 (could be easier with armor change)

SR 80 all bosses pulled


Ravager ~1:30 (with armor change he can be killed without pharma)



Well done!

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Nice build, Commander!

It’s nice when you can combine few passive skills and it’s original to use Vindictive flames mixed with Counter strike.

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Yeah that combo somehow never even occurred to me until reading this just now- this looks like fun!

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I somehow thought there was no other way to make CS/VF retal work (by work I mean fast cruci) without Turrion since there’s a lack of rata filler for commando but it’s very creative of you to find and try that mask. I thought that would be shit when I looked at the item before.

Also, I know you said in the private thread that you didn’t go sandspitter + green shoulders for conversion so that you don’t overload the build with greens but have you tried that setup? Dunno if it’s going to be faster since 2 pc dawnseeker gives a ton of retal too.


Thank you all guys for kind words!

I did not attempt to test it because build was made with forum in mind but I think there is theoretical way to get high conversion without losing 2 parts dawnseeker bonuses.

Viper sandspitter (60% max conversion) + Octavius Platemail (36% max), altough there is still small lose from dawnseeker amulet. Probably may be more worth to use green shoulders + pistol and current armor + Avenger of Cairn.

In theory we can go with pistol only and max Thermite Mines for additional elemental %RR but enemies are more resistant to elemental than physical so I don’t know if it could be worth with just single rr.

Great to see this concept at work as well, especially the use of that Mask.

I get that converted Physical is always gonna be best but I’m just curious, how do you think Counter Strike + Vindictive Flame would do on a Fire focus? Or Lightning with full Dawnbreaker.

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Fire has worse itemization and devotions but could work ofcourse, however worse than physical.

Lightning could be better than fire but with full Dawnbreaker it’s better to go just Warder, vindictive flame going to be on longer cooldown and you lose WD from green shield so tankyness will go down. Better use dawnseeker/dawnguard parts for some additional bonuses from sets and go another weapon than Beronath.

One major problem I see with lightning version even if not using full dawnseeker is that conversion fire->lightning is very poor for retaliation - and demolitionist and messenger of war provide a lot of fire retal.


nice commando build very creative and strong

I was planning doing commando with retaliation as next character and this gave me some nice ideas thanks so much

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was planing on a tactician retaliation, any thoughts?

Tactician is not good idea, you will lack retaliation sources and it can go only elemental so even worse. Inquisitor is good for Paladin, you can make gun retaliation with righteous fervor.

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thanks, was trying to make something with it, hard as fuck. aprecciate

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I have a question about vindictive flame and retaliation. Are these affected by your ability to dodge attacks? Specifically, if:

  1. an enemy fumbles an attack due to searing light, or 2) you dodge due to something like shadow dance, or 3) an attack misses due to your high DA -

Will vindictive flame and/or retaliation proc?

If enemy misses and do not touch you - you can’t retaliate damage. As far as I know. That’s why I avoid fumble/dodge items or going too much with DA if possible until I push some “extreme” shards.

Thanks! Appreciate it. Yes I noticed you didn’t get Flashbang and just wanted to confirm why.

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Due to Beronath being useless now some changes are needed but I have no idea how it would affect this build since it’s more specific than typical retals. I suggest to not follow it currently, I don’t know what setup would be best now and if it could even work.

I finished this build 1 week before the patch, tried it yesterday against Lokarr with Azragor armor. It seems OK, I’m not a super experienced player and it seems safe but takes a while face tanking him, not dangerous at all. I’ll try later against other Celestials.

I’ve used afanasenkov26’s lightning Warder for forming for a long time, it was nerfed last year but still is safe but slow. I’m no good at building, This might seem stupid to builders,but I wonder if using Stoneguard Pummeler mace or The Pummeler would be worth a damn, they’re slower but have quite a bit more retaliation damage, health for Stoneguard. . Are these any good for replacement for Beronath or is this a dumb idea?

Beronath is basically the core of this build for its crazy amount of 100% conversion. If you look at the itemization and devotions, you’ll see various elemental retaliation, all of which gets converted to physical by Beronath.

:man_shrugging: So changing this out would see a drop in retaliation damage, overall, as the focus is physical with physical RR. % retaliation works for all types, so it is less of a drop than you’d see wrt non-retaliation damage, though. An exception is Vindictive flame, which is non-retaliation and would be much lower.

If you did want to use those items, you’d be probably looking at also swapping up some of the other pieces, and that’s getting into territory of a different build. Items essentially make a build.

But if you are motivated, you could try similar concepts (vindictive flame retaliation) with fire and appropriate devotions or lightning, etc. Fire might be using Infernal Brimstone and so on.

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what about this
with max rolls 90% ele > phys conversion. Should off set the beronath nerf at least somewhat.
NOTE: i just swaped wpn and chest, did not touch anything else


Really appreciate you taking time to explain this. I’ll have to pay more attention to conversions.

Edit: and thanks Ulvar1, I forgot about that weapon, there’s been quite a bit of comment about it. I have the armor too, I’ll give your suggestion a try.