Your build has a lot of skill cooldown reductions, by my calculations on average 27%, but you could have more from random rolls and possibly have no cooldown on the mogdrogen proc, so you end up with (almost) permanent +46% total speed on all pets from this devotion. Have you tried other devotion setups? I think an eye of korvaak or empyrion setup would lead to a significant drop in performance and those seem to be more thematically correct from perspective of people who designed the devotion system.
You also seem to have 65% OA + 15% OA more from mogdrogen (almost) permanently
I tested many setups in past and thoughts about it:
If you want tank for HC or something go for Ishtak.
If you want maximum damage then Mogdrogen is way to go.
Dying God is not bad but total speed + OA outperforms 200% dmg/some cirt + losing health. Next thing is that many good damage devotions are on the road to Mogdrogen. Korvaak or Empyrion does not really make sense for me.
Why Mogdrogen isn’t thematically correct for pets? He is God of beasts.
Korvaak is a hilariously underperforming devotion, atleast on pet builds. Judging other devotions by comparing with it is like judging all Legendary pet items by comparing them to Dracarris.
And Empyrion is not a Pet devotion just because it has Pet bonuses, lol.
I’m trying to see it from perspective of people who designed the devotion system, korvaak is eldritsch = green, and therefore same color as fire devotions such as mage, fiend ulzuin etc. So you would expect offensive fire pet builds to go there since it is most +% Dmg devotion for pets but I think it loses to mogdrogen unintentionally (from developer perspective).
Don’t get me wrong I don’t want mogdrogen nerfed overall, I want it to be strong for physical/bleed builds but also not be a one tier 3 devotion to rule all pet devotions, then all pet builds will end up using the same devotion regardless of damage type.
Are you trying to say that the devs who designed korvaak are not the same ones who designed Mogdrogen?
Or that Mogdrogen doesn’t have green color requirement?
Or that Mogdrogen having Purple is an issue even though Shepherd’s Call, the best Tier1 Pet devotion is also Purple, not to mention all the other Purple Pet Devos.
Or that Korvaak doesn’t also need blue?
Or that Ishtak, being blue/yellow is not a Pet devotion?
Or that people don’t use Dying God in pet builds, which requires Red?
Or that you are now an authority on Dev perspective?
Are you now going to pretend that Ishtak and Dying God do not exist?
First setup is focusing on bleed mostly but physical damage is still there due to lack of converions. Damage is not overpowered but not bad either. If you want to go pure physical without any supportive damage then yes, it’s going to be underperforming sadly.
@Maya you read too much in my posts, it is obvious from the phrasing of my post that I never claimed any authority,
I also don’t know what the bar is in terms of cruci time for the developer to call something overpowered however, now AlkamosHater shows me more builds with amazing celestial kill times and they all use mogdrogen I’m inclined to believe that if there is a balance issue with pet builds at all it resolves around this devotion.
100% conversions on pets are available for many dmg types and a major source for build creativity. I don’t think they should take the blame for it.
Are you claiming that Mogdrogen alone is the factor here?
Or that all fast Cruci clearing builds need to have their Tier 3 devotions nerfed?
A single devotion does not make a build.
Yes, you go Modgrogen for any non-chaos/vitality Pet build unless you are looking for more survivability in which case you go the Ishtak route.
You don’t go Ishtak/Dying God on Bleed Pet builds for eg. On Elemental ones, you go for Ishtak/Mogdrogen based on whether you want more DPS or survivability.
Based on zero actual evidence and lack of knowledge.
You don’t need Mogdrogen to pull off fast Cruci Clears
I don’t see why pets shouldn’t use the tier 3 devotion for them. It’s like seeing a ton of fire builds with torch and saying “torch is OP! No one uses empyrion on fire!” When in reality torch is just a part of the devotion setup and the path towards that setup plays an even bigger role. Same with pets and mogdrogen.
Anyway @alkamoshater have you tried doing some dual damage type setup that isn’t bleed? I don’t know much about pets but it seems like it’s punished less by going dual damage types. Maybe just to help with resistant enemies?
Never tryied anything outside bleed + xx (excluding elemental which is 3 damage types). Bleed is usually easy to take with Mogdrogen devo and even more with beastcaller. I am thinking what damage types I could pair but I have no idea.
Btw tryied fire skeletons meme build and outside of lack of their survivality I managed to do finish run with 4:40 timer first try after losing them at 160 and losing their buffs. It’s clearly fire damage problem and all these conversions.
Just because some other build with different methodology overperforms is not relevant to this topic
I’m aware dying god can do some hefty damage but at least that devotion comes with a price tag of -308 health per second.
I only observed that a +46% total speed and +15% OA almost permanently is a bonus so good that it risks overshadowing other tier 3 pet constellations too much. This doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to get nerfed, it could also be that other constellations such as korvaak/empyrion need to be buffed. If all non-chaos/vit pet builds can only use mogdrogen or Isthak than that is a loss for the game as a whole. This is not the developers perspective, this is just MY perspective AS IF I was developing the game.
It is very much relevant for balance. You do not look at things in a vacuum.
And you can’t Pair Mogdrogen with things like Tree or Ishtak (defensive devotions) that you can take along with DG.
Perhaps you need to observe more. It doesn’t risk overshadowing anything.
Korvaak needs buffs. No one has argued otherwise.
Empyrion is not a Pet devotion. If anything, it is actually a bad idea to take it on Pet builds since the proc generates unwanted aggro and you can’t bind it to a Pet. So, it doesn’t need any changes unless it underperforms on non pet builds.
There are 4 Tier-3 Pet devotions in total: DG, Ishtak, Mogdrogen and Korvaak.
Considering that 3 of those see regular use in pet builds, I don’t see your point.
But since you are not, that is irrelevant.
If a Cold build can convert Fire > Cold, there is no reason why they can’t use it.
Just because it doesn’t make sense to you thematically, doesn’t mean that the game needs to be changed to fit your views. You are however free to mod it if you wish.
Also except pet targeted T3 devotions there are other T3 that can be used with pets and they can be good for certain builds - Rattosh, Leviathan, Ultos, Seru, Oleron.
Yes, but Pet builds can make use of any RR or Proc based devotions. You also forgot good old Torch
But, why Seru though? Its proc scales with Player bonuses, can’t be bound to pets (since it is a pet itself) and only really gives a bit of resistances and DA which can be found elsewhere. Or do you mean, like putting 4 pts in it for the DA bonus if you have spare points since requirements are similar to Moggy?
@Zantai, Can you perhaps shed some light on how the Proc from Attack Seru works when bound to Pet Scaled Pets?
Does it still scale based on the Summoner / Player’s damage or is the Pet’s damage taken instead?
In the devotion map, the only thing that is nearly compulsory for a build of a certain damage type is RR that corresponds to that type. And pets work different from non pet builds. However, even considering the view of a non pet player like me, common devotion pathing dictates that you want the t3 constellation that gives you the most damage for that specific damage type. You look at mogdrogen as a bleed focused devotion but look at this comparison between pet bonuses of t3 pet devos:
Dying God: 90% all damage, 5% attack speed, 10% crit, proc with 200% all damage and 20% crit with close to 100% uptime on alkamoshater’s setup
Korvaak: 90% all damage, 5% OA, 8% crit, 6% health, 20% chaos res and a damaging proc
Mogdrogen: 110% all damage, 5% OA, 5% total speed and some bleed. Plus a proc that also has near 100% uptime and gives 15% OA and 40% speed
We don’t talk about ishtak cause I’m talking about damage here.
Passive bonuses alone, mogdrogen is better. OA > crit and attack speed > crit if it’s not capped so it’s got both the better aspects of dying god and korvaak in itself. Then when we look at the procs, Korvaak’s proc isn’t really good while Mogdrogen is better than DG because again, OA > crit and also no downside which can limit your survivability. Not to mention the other pet bonuses you get by going purple.
You need to look at it as just a pet build. The fire part is already taken care of by the RR. At least that’s what I think
@maya@alkamoshater what’s the base attack speed of pets? I see + 180% on pets with no temp buffs. Is that the final attack speed or you add it to 100%?
Sorry for misinformation
