Yeah, i’m taking a look at it and it really is a primordial build. I can’t really use it as a point of comparison. Oh well… I’m gonna do it my own way and see how it goes.
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For pure chaos (on beastcaller) going for Mogdrogen and DG do not make that much difference, few% more dps with DG maybe (https://www.grimtools.com/calc/O2Gg6PX2) vs Mogdrogen (https://www.grimtools.com/calc/1NXa6MW2). For vitality I prefer Mogdrogen + Rattosh (skeletons and briars), easier to take other damaging devotions and rr% is must for good damage.
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I understand it looks like fire is the cause, but if you look closely at the evidence provided by AlkamosHater you will see the real cause of the build excellent performance is entirely different:
AlkamosHater linked to various builds above that did not use the method of fire conversion and flat fire bonuses but they still performed almost as good as the fire build with insanely fast celestial kills.
Both the fire and non-fire builds show massive attack speed ratings around 130-150%, and that is even before mogdrogen activates on top of it. Also all builds have very high OA and mogdrogen puts another 15% on top of it.
This quote from AlkamosHater was lost in the discussion: ‘Salazar’s Sovereign Blade is however unbalanced, it’s barely worse for this build than Korvaak (and I am destroying my conversion with Salazar) and it can be bis everywhere else.’
So even if the fire conversion from Korvaak is lost the build can perform almost as good, this is related to a pet intended to be very strong but superslow getting insane speed buffs.
People seem to worry about 30% total dmg on a single pet from zaria pendant, but not about a 46% total speed buff from Mogdrogen on all pets, also including movement allowing insanely fast target switching. The cooldown on the proc can be removed pretty much entirely by the skill cooldown reductions on the pendant, beastcaller head and caster off-hand, making the buff permanent.
The swarmlings are supersynergetic with korvaaks burning blade and flat fire bonuses, but acccording to AlkamosHater the build nonetheless performs better in cruci with Bysmiel, which gives another 45% total speed boost on top of the mogdrogen boost. To a small group of pets this speed buff is stronger than the flat chaos bonus on the relic converted to fire.
So in conclusion fire has a small edge over other dmg types because of the existence of additional flat bonuses and conversion items, but the the main cause of the superb performance of mogdrogen based pet builds is insane speed.
It would scale…poorly.
That’s not an intended interaction that looks like slipped in at some point in Forgotten Gods, we’ll fix that in v1.1.9.2.
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what is the devotion setup for Rattosh + Mogdrogen?
I literally gave you an example of a Non Mogdrogen build showing same Crucible Clear time.
Attack speed does nothing without damage. And guess where the damage is coming from?
Hint: Not the devotion you are complaining about.
Take out all that conversion and flat and see how well it performs relying on just Mogdrogen.
Pet builds don’t scale well based on OA after a point. If you can get enough to score consistent Crits, it is more efficient to focus on other attributes.
Nope, it just is an OP pet as it can carry even a non pet build by itself: Fwuffy's Harbinger - Pet Dervish
No Mogdrogen needed to make it strong.
I assume we are now ignoring the %Total damage modifier on the Offhand + the Briarthorn CD reduction which helps out against Celestials alot.
In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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The witching hour build is not a mogdrogen build and not a flat fire build, it uses a different method to achieve dmg and is irrelevant to this topic.
Same applies to a totally different dervish build that isn’t overpowered, only shows SR75 was cleared and that is not a feat anywhere near killing callagadra in 3 minutes.
That is the entire point I am making…
That it has nothing to do with Mogdrogen overperforming.
It uses the same method. Stack Flat damage and damage bonuses + a lot of Pets.
Do you even read or are you trolling at this point?
My post was only supposed to show that the builds posted by AlkamosHater follow a consistent methodology of piling up massive amounts of speed and that this gives amazing results regardless of the damage type that he is using. If another build achieves the same damage with less speed, than obviously that build has base higher damage, but that base damage was achieved with different items.
My initial posts in this thread have never been addressed to you in the first place and were constructed in a polite manner, yet you keep jumping on them with massive quote walls, putting words in my mouth and tire me with irrelevant examples.
If you don’t like my opinions I recommend you ignore them completely from now on, that way it is impossible that you are being trolled by me since I won’t be addressing you with them.
Example route from my Lost Souls Cabalist: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2Brepw2
Results like that are mostly because of insane flat values converted and raw damage without strong dots. It’s not really about Mogdrogen, I like to use this devotion on my other builds too but they are not even close, except acid/bleed setup due to salazar weapon and sick dots (it even achieved some better times on celestials). The difference is gameplay, dots setup require a lot of micro and you should control pets much more to make full use of it. Also this build is carried by Salazar dagger (already said it is overpowered).
Best strategy for this build is not using pet command (excluding killing healers fast) because pets often split then and do damage for more enemies at once.
Other damage types can be made fast but they are in balanced side, Mogdrogen devotion is no way too strong.
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Thank you for answering to my post in a constructive manner,
So my question is: have you also tried the firesetup or the salazar builds with another devotion setup that uses a much lower attack speed build like the other build around 75% and how much did the performance drop?
Also have you any of those builds uploaded you considered on the balanced side and what times are we talking about then?
I tested Dying God on pure chaos and Vitality months ago. Chaos do well but dps with DG is barely higher (and I stacked attack speed with items anyway), but bleeding + chaos is little bit better and then Mogdrogen and Rend is way to go. Vitality with DG is not so good, if you want Rattosh in same time you give up other good devotions. Especially skeletons do well with high speed.
Mogdrogen is also helpful due to increasing mobility, targets are switched faster.
Fire setup I went straight for Mogdrogen, I see little sense with DG there, it’s only some % damage and worse road. I did some tests with Fissure but it was not as good as it look on the paper.
There are two other builds I posted: [1.1.9.0] Beastcaller Conjurers - Bleeding and Chaos/Bleeding hybrid-> Crucible 4:49-5:20/ SR 115/ Callagadra 2:53-3:27 + Ravager 1:23 + Crate ~30 seconds
Clearing speed in crucible around 5 minutes (little bit slower or faster) I consider balanced.
There are also few video in OP with acid setup, it’s above average in Crucible (was early 4:3x) but slower than fire mostly due to dots mechanics and pets AI.
Ofcourse pets usually do well with celestials or SR but that’s nature of summoning mechanics, not much can be done with it.
Thanks, I think those are still pretty incredible speed. I was working on a build myself based on flat fire bonuses. this is a demolitionist + necromancer build it uses korvaak burning blade and the conduit adding +fire to skeletons and also converting all vitality to fire. But nonetheless the build is still a trainwreck it fell apart in SR50, I think even if the blade gave +1 to demolitionist it would still have issues. The pets are too weak alone and the character itself has trouble making up for it. Your builds made me think I should focus the build all on speed instead, but I don’t know yet if that will workout. I’m ofc not trying to get a record like this, just aiming for a regular SR75 build.
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Wow, this combination could not possibly have been foreseen!
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Demolitionist is not really good class for pets, especially if you go for skeletons. For skeles I would go with Cabalist, occultist gives tons of flat and a lot survivality + elemental RR. Blood of Dreeg itself is helpful not only for you but for your pets either, especially such squishy as skeletons.
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Echoing what AlkamosHater says about Demolitionist not being good for pets as well, Fire Skellies at that. I tried it a number of updates ago and damage was middle-ish at best, it should be passable (but not amazing) now with improvements like the Raise Skeletons Conduit but the bigger deal was survivability - Demolitionist and more specifically Defiler is horrible for survival on pets compared to it’s peers.
Relying on timed buffs like Blast Shield and Mark of Torment for your defense as opposed to passive defense like Aspect of the Guardian or Possession/Primal Bond just sucks, no innate physical resistance that Occultist/Shaman can afford also stings deeply. Defiler also provides no pet resistances or means of healing your pets up. Finally, some of the skills like transmuted BWC or Thermite Mines while great as devotion proccers and for RR are massive aggro generators.
If you really want to try Fire Skellies, save yourself the headache and go Cabalist like AlkamosHater recommends or Ritualist.
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Lmao #petsaredead
Well built, well piloted! I’ve heard briar-airlines are hiring and paying well 
@AlkamosHater all memes aside, great job with this build, (as expected from you)
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You focused on one aspect of the build, being Pet Speed, while ignoring everything else.
The only thing your posts showed were an utter ignorance to how pet builds work in general and also in this particular case while ignoring everything posted by everyone that contradicts your views.
Try making a pet build with just massive Speed and no damage.
Or try going for both damage and speed at the cost of defensive stats like resistances.
Or try going for all the above, but with different pets or number of pets.
This is not your private blog. Even if you are merely posting your opinions, expect those who disagree with your views to make their own posts.
But I guess when you can no longer defend your position, you resort to ignoring everything that proves you wrong and act like a troll.
Part of the reason behind the insane speeds is that AlkamosHater uses multiple MI’s with basically impossible affixes, all of which have some sort of %Attack Speed bonus applied to it. You can see it on the weapon, MI, amulet, and belt. Additionally, the 2 Briarthorns hit like a truck thanks to the skill modifiers, so they kill fast enough that AlkamosHater can afford to use Mogdrogen’s Blessing augments on jewelry, leading to even more OA and attack speed.
Nearly all pet builds don’t have that combination of massive flat damage at once (thanks to the Briarthorn) and stacking multiple %Attack Speed affixes + using a BiS set which provides nearly all the defensive protection you need. Without all of that, clearing time goes down, which requires you to prepare more defensively, and you result in much more manageable times.
All in all, this is basically a TAS with more impossible greens than banana_peel’s melee Pierce builds (since you’re stacking multiple rare affixes + multiple Seer’s prefix for pet skill points compared to simpler Cunning stacking). Outside of tamping down both of the %damage modified for the Briarthorn, there’s not much you can realistically do that wouldn’t hurt more reasonable builds that only carry 1 of these affixes.
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a whooping 1400% damage and 240% attack speed and 80% OA to the pet 
i guess the korvaak blade, bloodsworn codex, zaria pendant can be target farm but getting the right combination would be too painful.