[] Chain of Anguish Discussion

Please forget about your tier because we have different criteria. This difference is not between you and I, or you and banana_peel, or anything like these. It’s between your GD community and mine. So let’s not use your or my tier rank as a evidence, plz. :wink:

Heavy phsical hits are very very few in SR tho. We don’t farm Ravager and Calla everyday, do we?

I don’t mean that Anguish belt is a must in this situation. I mean it’s just working fine with this Elementalist and the build can also afford the Anguish Debuff.

I don’t doubt your profession. And please trust me that I’ve done hunreds (maybe more than 1000) of SR runs with Anguish belt and I know at least the right direction if there is going to be some changes.

Like I said in the OP, the most important suggestion is simply adjusting the debuff CD and duration synchronously, then it comes to more crit damage and more damage penalty. As for specific values, we could start with 25s/5s, 18% crit damage/ 33% penalty, and adjust these values based on further feedbacks in the next PTR.

I just wanted to point out that there is one other use case for CoA, and that is a build where 100% of damage or debuffs originates from pets or player pets. Such a build will never proc the proc on CoA. Extremely niche, I know, and this is not going to affect anyone’s opinions about buffs or nerfs or whatever. But it’s some interesting trivia.

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But then why do you guys use Titan Platings so much? One of the most useless pound for pound components.

In a spirit of friendly competion I offer you to compare our notes, in other words, to compare the best builds from our community and yours. I believe that our top20 builds are trully the best and our min-maxing methods are as optimal as they go, because they were born from constant knowledge exchange and mutual feedback, in other words, we were sharing our experience and helping each other out. Top20 was trullly a consensus between the very best builders who together have like tens of thousands of hours of making builds. I have tried one of your best builds (remember that argument with banana in a similiar thread earlier?) and it was pretty good. But it was not as good as the builds from our top20. It had some flaws. And I see flaws in the builds you guys make. Even for your goals (fastest SR 75-76 runs) they are not 100% optimally min-maxed. But maybe I am wrong and maybe you can prove me by giving us your stuff for tests while testing our stuff and comparing it. Again, all in a spirit of friendly competition and knowledge sharing. Let me know.

This is in fact a prejudice. We use titan platings mostly for its Pierce Resist and reflected damage reduction. The 12% Armor is never our first concern.

We are never of poorer knowledge. Like I said, it’s just different criteria. Our main focus is SR and we don’t always take a fridge of potions during either testing and farming, so we forces ourselves to have at least 35% res overcap (30% for pierce and chaos, and 40% for aether) to face all situations. And we don’t have buffs and towers so we also forces a 3000 OA in most cases. You guys are just guarantee 15%, or simply reach the cap, because you guys care about CR the first and their could be towers and buffs. You think your builds are better, and that’s imo because you can put the resources that we put in res and OA/DA into damage and solve the problem with potion, buffs or towers. Let alone you guys haven’t break my 3:38 record.

I admit that you guys have experience in CR and you guys make the most of CR mechanism, but focusing on CR and no-potion SR is two totally different thing. You can just force yourselves to have at least 35% res overcap without any potion, buffs nor towers and see how much damage it will lose. Or turn all the potions, buffs and towers down to see how vulnerable it will be.

It’s just different criteria.

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is that even possible?
i know player scaled pet attacks doesn’t count as attack to trigger item procs
but certain devos does, even if it was applied by a pet
not to mention other item procs can
and it would likely be pretty hard to make an (effective) player scaled pet build that didn’t use “some” player offensive skill, even if it’s just movement to get out of harms way. And i think only 3 player pets have RR, devils, empys, and mines, any other RR application is a player offensive that can trigger the belt, even aura of censure etc
so i’m not just thinkinh how niche it is, but how actually viable it is to have a 0 trigger anguish belt build :thinking:

and the belt has probably less use on a real pet build/pet scaled pets anyway

I mean no offense but the whole statement about “us” being “the crucible speedrunners community” is invalid for like a couple of years already. crucible stopped being a measure stick, instead what we try to do, is to test builds in all possible environments - cr, sr and superbosses. if you open the top20 thread or even any of the recent build threads (like said Blazerush) you will see videos of all those challenges presented.
thus, we don’t make builds with a thought “oh, I’ll have a couple of buffs so i can sit at 2600 oa and them have 2900 with 'em still”. that’s simply wrong.

this is also wrong. again, if you watch any of our SR runs, you will mostlikely see no res poitions or clusters used whatsoever, unless it’s some deep sr crawling, where you need all possible defences. but for regular SR75-76 farming using potions etc is kinda a movais tone and a sign of a flawed build.

this also exists, as some run naked ex (which is probably the most moronic challenge out there but it’s still possible).

Well yes, builds do use beacons and blessings in CR because it’s a necessity to be able to farm CR in the first place, unlike SR where you can reliably farm it “naked”.

Reflect doesn’t work in SR or CR for that matter.

We are also not using potions in SR 75-76 farming, only for deeper shards.

seems to work for pets with dot devotions on them
i’ve several toons that’s “mysteriously” died to reflect in SR (yes it was reflect because enemies generally don’t slap 6-8k bleed/trauma on you :sweat_smile:)
i think it’s player scaled pets+devos atleast, since that seems to be around the times where it happen on some heroes

anyways, TLDR?

how many builds does this belt affect?
does it “only”/primarily affect DoT builds?
does it primarily affect tanky builds?

because unless it’s like a “widespread” issue, i don’t really think it’s necessarily that egregious
increase the phys res penalty?
increase the duration of the “buff”?
prevent belt swap from removing the “buff”?

idono, how big a deal is it?


Reflected damage reduction only really matters in Campaign, in SR the only semi-dangerous reflectors are mirrored Aether mages. Pierce resist you can get anywhere else. My point is that Prismatic Diamond or Sanctified Bone gives a lot more value both offensively and defensively.

I am not sure if you looked at our top20 post, because in there @banana_peel explained our criteria for build rankings. And it was SR 75-76 first, then Celestials, then Crucible. We don’t make builds with Crucible blessings/buffs in mind, it has not been the case for years now (unless we specifically want to make a fun gimmick that runs fast just in buffed Crucible, but you will not see those gimmicky builds anywhere near our top20 thread).

Again, in a spirit of friendly competition I offer you compare the best builds from our community and see where “criterias” stand.

I had enough top 20 now. I saw them all but none of them are of balanced res overcap. (which means near 100% in some and near 0% in others). SR 75-76 first? Stop jokking! These unbalanced res overcap setup won’t be able to challenge many boss combos, and maybe Korvaak alone.

I don’t want to hear any more reply either. Had enough of arrogance too.
I’ll quit.

1 sounds good. 2 sounds bad. didnt read the rest of the thread. absolutely hate the belt design, i wish it was simply a universal +1 all skills with some moderate permnanent upsides and downsides.

We have a lot of BD that can go beyond T20, I can optimize every one of them, they are not perfect, they are not even qualified to compare

unrelated question, but it reminds me
where does all the chinese community builds go? :thinking:
i see very few posted on the crate forum, so if shoppin or y8388 etc doesn’t post something i rarely know of its existence,
and many times they sound interesting or there is chatter of something amazing or tanky that cleared XXX, but never a post for forum stuff to find, sometimes it might lucky to include a bilibili video but not always, and even if there is a video there is not always a grimtools link.
makes me extra curious what special stuff you folks cook up on the other side of the Grim Dawn community since it appears more “hidden” or unaware atleast :sweat_smile:

It doesn’t matter. You can put in whatever BD you think is perfect, and I’ll optimize it :blush:

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By “beyond” you mean surpass? It’s not very clear, sorry.

Do you mean they are currently not good enough to compare? Or too good? Again something is being lost in (google) translation :slight_smile: .

But sure, if you are up to it, we can create a separate thread for it and you can send us your optimized builds so we can test them. While you test our top20 stuff. What do you think?

Like this Warlord, Level 100 (GD - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

The original skills are a little messed up 。so Archon, Level 100 (GD - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

That doesn’t look like a top20 build to me, it looks tanky (although with some questionable decisions in skill distribution and Exclusive skill choice) but I doubt it has enough damage to make it special. Do you have the save file? Because we tested Warborn Warlord with a shield and dual wield specs and our conclusion was that it wasn’t good enough compared to other builds we tested.

That’s just my build but with worse min-maxing :laughing:

What even is this thread…

Different metas develop in different parts of the world across many games. I think things are getting unnecessarily misconstrued here as personal attacks and becoming needlessly heated. Let’s cool it please.


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