[1.2.1.2] [HC] Immor(t)al Porcupine (Counter Strike + Vindictive Flame Retaliation Commando)

Grim Dawn Classes, Skills and Builds
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Sorry what?

A character that uses its rediculous defense as its offensive power. We rely on a healthy (?) mix of Counter Strike, Vindictive Flame, retaliation damage, devotion procs, hp regen, and DA to turn into a Sherman tank that had its turret switched for a meat grinder. Taking inspiration from my Passivist build, I thought to myself: How can I become an immor(t)al porcupine? With a staggering 0.4 seconds cooldown on Vindictive Flame, 0.7 on Counter Strike, and over 4k (!) HP regen per second, with 3.5k DA and 17k health, this bad boy is not going to keel over. Best of all: It’s possible all affix-less greens that can be easily acquired. The endgame setup adds a casual 20k retaliation damage, and lowers Counter Strike cooldown to 0.2 seconds and adds a couple of nice procs. Now that's a blender!

Why?

Ever since I saw the Colossal Fortress, I wanted to make a build around maxing Counter Strike and Vindictive Flame, getting the cooldown as low as possible. Now I have not yet looked much into legendary gear support, because getting to level 94 will take some time, and I prefer to level as the endgame concept. So if a playstyle only becomes usable at level 94 with a specific legendary set, I don't often go for it. But I will when I get the character to somewhere in that ballpark.

Grimtools of theorectical budget setup

Grimtools of theorectical endgame setup

This is basically the endgame I am looking at. All easy to acquire items, hardcapping our important skills. This is not yet a final draft, but more of an idea of what I am going for. Alternatively, we could swap the amulet to Kaisan's Burning Eye, and we would like at least 1 instance of the Warlord’s or Of Blades affix, as well as the Of the Hurricane affix on the shield (good luck with that), because it's the only green way to cap Ulzuin's Wrath. Endgame legendaries could shave off some cooldown, using Blood Knight's Visage for -0.2 seconds cd off CS, or Ember's Calling set, shaving off 0.2 seconds cd off VF. Dawnseeker's Light set seems counterproductive, because it occupies weapon and shield, Trading -0.3s CS and -0.6s VF for -0.6s CS. I decided on the linked endgame setup, which reduces Counter Strike cd to a measly 0.2 seconds. Complete insanity, if you ask me. It caps Ulzuin's Wrath, deals a lot more retaliation damage, but loses quite a bit of regeneration. Please let me know if you can think of further upgrades, while I level the build to the budget state :smiley:

How do you level this?

The question you should be asking is: "Should you level like this?" The answer is: "No." But if you get over the fact that the early game will be a bit rough, and then extremely rewarding, I will let you. So how do you level this? Easy. Start Demolitionist, max Vindictive Flame, then Ulzuin’s Wrath. Start putting points into soldier, and when you’ve progressed far enough, take out all the points of Ulzuin’s Wrath and bring Demo mastery back to 10, so you can max Counter Strike. Then remax Ulzuin’s Wrath. There you go: The damage part of the build is done. Note that I used a Saviour’s Merit, so that I did not have to walk everywhere and make my levelling journey slightly easier.

Level 27: Commando, Level 27 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

From level 35 the build becomes much better, because you can equip a nice amount of MI’s that will really help with overcapping your most important skills. With two Gollus Rings, Fleshwarped Platemail, Mogara’s Fangs, Ugdenbog Girdle and Ikrix Scale, you suddenly are a lot stronger.
Level 40: Commando, Level 40 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Pad the porcupine with Menhir’s Bulwark, Overguard, Blast Shield, and Menhir’s Will, and you should be basically unkillable. Once you get the Ascendant Conduit and Colossal Fortress, you will notice that you have become a very efficient blender.
Level 53: Commando, Level 53 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

This is the build that I entered Ultimate with. Interestingly, it is quicker at killing 3 heroes that it is at killing one. Casters are noticably slower. The build feels extremely safe though, which is nice in HC. It is also impossible to pilot it wrong.
Level 65: Commando, Level 65 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Smooth sailing through Ultimate, now that resistances are capped. This becomes much easier after reaching revered with some factions and getting to level 70. Some MI’s are due an upgrade, though only trash Gollus Rings have dropped, and I don’t consider farming for them at this level worth the time invested.
Level 75: Commando, Level 75 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Devotions

Crossroads Blue - Lizard - Remove Crossroads Blue - Hound

Crossroads Purple - Wolverine - 4 nodes in Messenger of War (towards the devotion proc)
Scarab - Stag - Solemn Watcher - Shieldmaiden
Empty Throne - Vire, the Stone Matron - 4 points in Tree of Life (towards the devotion proc)
Obelisk of Menhir (all nodes except the one that is NOT the devotion proc)

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Why do you want such high DA? If enemies can’t hit you then retal might not work very well. How will you deal with pure caster bosses like aleks/valdaran if you have no rata abilities? Enemies like them won’t proc VF or counter strike afaik

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The real question is: How will Aleksander and Valdaran deal with me? I have the power of staring at them with dumb-faced abandon :stuck_out_tongue:

Chance to get hit is capped at 55% at the lowest. And 3.5k DA will not get you there, more likely 80%. Which is perfectly fine. As for casters, taking damage procs a lot of things, just not our retaliation damage. I will test some strong casters in Ultimate, but until now in Elite I had no problem with them. The Serrated Shell component at least serves as an active :slight_smile:

UPDATE: Counter Strike seems to be procced by damage zones, same with Vindictive Flame. Zarthuzellan certainly died from them.

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Hey there.
I haven’t played Grim Dawn in a few years, and just recently decided to give it another whirl.
Purged all of my old characters and everything, and started from scratch, playing on the Steam Deck.

I’ve been leveling up a pet Conjurer (around level 62 now), but with various items I’m picking up, I’m starting to get thoughts of leveling up either a gunslinger Purifier, or some kind of retaliation build.

With retaliation, you know, I was somehow thinking it would be a lot more of running around getting hit, and less button mashing.

Started looking around at various recent-ish retal builds, but a whole lot of them seem to have way more buttons to press on a regular basis than I would have liked.
Auto-attack replacer here, Forcewave there, several item provided skills, a couple-three defensive skills.

Plus there’s the problem of there being 3-4-5 different classes that you can play retaliation builds as.

Having said that, I’ve stumbled onto this build of yours, and i’m really liking what I’m seeing.

Starting the build’s focus on Collossal Fortress nicely guides us into Commando.
Aiming for practically no active skills is also a very good start (in my book).
Granted, I’d likely want to grow into using 1-2 skills, perhaps 3 tops.
Maybe Blitz for moving between packs? Or 1-2 buff skills. Just not 4-5+.

Suure, maybe I should level up the factions as my pet character (and maybe I will), get some merits and stuff. That would be the sensible thing to do. But I feel like it might be time to start leveling a retaliation Commando :smiley:

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Thanks for your enthousiasm!

You can easily grab a point in Blitz, or use a medal augment for more movement (I love Leap, so that is what I use). This build binds one skill to the base attack button, and has basically one or two actives (for added defense and regen). So it is extremely easy to pilot.

That being said, be prepared that the early game will be somewhat tedious. Especially the Colossal Fortress is a great power-up, but it takes a while to get it. But the power spikes are obvious and it serves as a great blender. Though if you have access to merits, it will save you the trek to Malmouth. That being said, levelling with Forcewave or Blackwater Cocktail is pretty smooth sailing as well in the early game, so you can just do that until you get the relevant MI’s.

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Added a theoretical endgame build (without affixes and components). I love that it lowers CS cd to 0.2 seconds :smiley: But I am not very good at building these things necessarily, so let me know if you can think of any improvements.

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So I ended up starting up a commando, leveling as retaliation (with Blitz for movement). It may not be the smoothest, but I’ve been having fun doing it.
Got to about level 30 or so.
And died twice to a side area boss (spike damage and some pools on the ground).

That got me thinking:

  • I’ve been really ignoring any of the augments and components, other than once I level up a character to the max, and then blindly follow a build’s recommendations for which components/augments to put on my gear.
  • And I’ve got a bunch of locked achievement in steam, a lot of them having to do with beating stuff in Hardcore.
  • I typically don’t play any of the HC modes in ARPGs, but with being of the mindset to play a tanky retaliation character, now would be as good a time as any to try leveling it in HC.
  • I’ve now started a brand new demolitionist in HC.
  • I have no idea how far I will get, but I feel like it’ll be a good experiment for me. I should be a LOT more careful to make sure to prioritize my defenses, life regen, resistances, etc.

If it fails, and the character dies, I’ll simply resume my softcore Commando :slight_smile:

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Good luck! Just make sure you check your resistances indeed.

What I often do is slot Antivenom Salve in belt, Silk Swatch in shoulder and legs, Runestone in head, Unholy Inscription in hand, and Sanctified Bone in chest. This shores up quite a few resistances, and you could always add more to rings, amulet and weapon/shield. Just don’t get baited too much by fancy retaliation damage in the early game, and pump points into Physique and mastery bar for HP.

Alternatively, I am working on a HC levelling guide for a Fire Strike Sorcerer, which is basically a Demolitionist until Elite, and it’s dead easy to pilot (just nowhere near as tanky). If you want, I can send you the draft of the early game.

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I’m set on the tankiness for now, so no need on the sorc :slight_smile: (for squishiness I can go back to the conjurer, or roll a Purifier :smiley: )
Thanks a lot for the components recommendations though! I’ll definitely do my best to remember (or better yet, write them down).

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Hey mate, great looking build! What kind of content can this build achieve?

Also is there any attacks I can add as a default attack replacer or is there no point? :slight_smile:

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Thanks! I have yet to get to the end of Ultimate with it, so I will have to test that. Will update when I get there. So far caster bosses take a bit of time, but the build was never at risk of dying. Totems are very smooth at least.

For the budget build I replace the attack with the Serrated Shell component. It has cooldown, but I doubt your attacks would do much anyways. The envisioned endgame build uses a medal that adds RATA to Markovian’s Advantage, so attacking becomes slightly more important there. I don’t think speccing into Fire Strike or Cadence will change all that much, seeing this build pathetic OA. Shard of Beronath is a possibility too, though the build does not really benefit much from its stats.

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Thanks for the reply. How long is long for caster bosses? xD

And also is there another medal to use other than the markovians advantage one so that you don’t ever really need to attack anyway?

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Maybe a minute and a half?

You can just forgo attacking, Markovian’s defensive Proc is solid either way, and it rolls with a ton of good stats. Will lower DPS by a bit, but Markovian’s is not hardcapped anyways. It does hit for about 20+k without any actives, so it’s something :slight_smile:

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Awesome that seems fun, so pretty much just bind overguard to right click and then afk, I love it lol. Any other way to add passive damage via auras (player scaled pets) or anything or is it just all retal damage? I’m loving the idea of this and thinking of starting it using your leveling guide

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The build has low +% damage, because retaliation is its own kind of damage. So sure, everything helps a bit, but I would say that 90+% of your damage will come from procs, retaliation and RATA.

That was part of the design philosophy, yeah :slight_smile:

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Awesome man, well I might start leveling it soon and bookmark this to view any changes and stuff and your progression on it

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One last question sorry man, should I put my loot filter as show only retaliation gear or not, will I miss out on any of the drops that are needed for your build?

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No problem, happy to help! For filtering for retaliation only, I would recommend against it. Not all good resistance affixes/items have retaliation :wink: And yes, you will miss some MI’s if you don’t know what to look for. Apart from the shield, chest and medal, none of them natively roll with retaliation, but you want the skill bonuses, so you want to see when they drop. That being said, I always turn of normal and magic gear, so my inventory does not flood all the time.

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If say in end game I use the markovian advantage medal but I dont want to attack, do anything other things proc is or can I just take the points out and put them in the other passives?

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If you don’t attack, then putting points into Markovian’s Advantage is pointless, so yeah, might as well put them elsewhere. There are some extra resistances in Soldier that are not maxed, and maybe it is even better to put them into Flame Touched. But as stated, the endgame setup is preliminary, I will need to do some testing to see which spec performs best. This is just what I came up with browsing GrimTools, with the goal of hardcapping VF, CS and Ulzuin’s Chosen, adding retaliation and getting defensive procs :wink: