Thing is, Archon wasn’t even top 1 in our latest top20, moreover, after our latest top20 came out it got nerfed few times and realistically it wouldn’t make a top20 had the testing been done today. And then even at its peak it wasn’t the fastest Crucible farmer, it was just a solid all around build. So if you want to compete against the actual Crucible beasts current benchmark is sub 4:30 minutes 150-170 buffless Gladiator extra spawn runs.
Does not really count untill it’s a full run.
Look, not trying to rain on your parade, the spec with Ultos axe is pretty solid and strong all in all. But that switch is not doing much. Even if you have a nice timer against Ravager with the ranged weapon (I mean Evoker Vindicator does it in 40 seconds) it doesn’t mean that it’s viable to switch to it. Simply because your axe hits much harder.
You can do simple tests your self, run 8x Crucible (with buffs) with just axe no weapon switch and run it 8x times with weapon switching and compare timers.
By how much?? Record of axe on Ravager is 1:09. Rifle is 1:10??
I already did “naked” axe only runs many times and my times were slower than with switching. Probably because the lack of extra mobility made pure melee harder and maybe the lack of extra Savagery charge from ranged of Ferocity was felt as well?
What gave you the impression that rifle was very weak when they had almost the exact same Ravager ttk? I suppose iz because of my awful skill and decision-making in 160+ waves?
P.S. I’m not comparing my build to top of the top crucible speedrunners. I was just trying to make a point about switching not being as mere “gimmicky” as you thought.
Red Ravager is not the test for that. First of all, your timer against him is going to incredibly volatile, especially with a crit based build. Secondly, because of his super high resists single rr builds don’t scale damage well against him with flat increase that well.
It’s either a lot of Crucible runs (but buffed crucible) but better yet 4x dummy resets. But also just eye test from wathing your video and comparing flat and attacks per second (I don’t think extra charge is compensating for that).
Well it’s because thinking about when to switch is extra brain work that you have to do when playing the build and that takes away from thinking about positioning and spawns and noticing your cooldowns etc.
Anyway, I gave you all the wisdom I could here, I think it’s fine if you disagree with me on some stuff.
I get it how the red orb reduces OA. But if you just cared a bit more to see the vids, you’d see that I did a trick to avoid the orbs entirely. The trick allowed me to have fairly consistent tests on Ravager, miles more than I ever could on Crucible especially given my lack of skill and experience on the latter lol.
I did dummy tests too of course. It has more variance than Ravager due to being shorter. High variance stuff when dragged on long enough tends to get closer to average.
Again, if you miss it due to skimming/reading too quick, I eliminated lots of the variance in Ravager tests by doing a trick.
i didn’t note if Lee already covered this
but, try matching their buffed Cruci runs before trying to match naked cruci runs?
Even after years of player i’m still consistently slower than Lee even on buffed runs, and those(buff+tower) are like the best case scenarios for me.
Probably also watched like a “hundred” hours of Lee, Roman, Banana etc top runner cruci vids too, and i can still hone in on mistakes i make in actual play vs their vids (leopard changing spots and all that )
iirc Nery also had like a basic cruci runner tip guides for slight starter optimizations, that + multi video runs is probably a good starting point.
Gladiator 150-170 strategies, mini guide (Web view)
did you do 4x dummy reset? Like this. This is almost always accurate for me (exception would be some piano builds where you can mess up the buttons). Banana_peel even does 8x resets.
fair point, if you do the trick with fully avoiding his orb it removes some variance for sure. But there is still a case of single rr build flat scaling against him.
I guess another problem with rifle vs axe on Ravager is how the big OA from the rifle matters more vs Ravager, but has diminishing returns on other mobs.
I’ll do the dummy consecutive reset tests some time, thanks for the idea. I’m worried tho that this would be on the far opposite end of the spectrum, where the rifle’s big OA would not matter at all due to dummy’s low DA.
Seems like both scenarios are a little bit unrealistic, perhaps there’s another low variance test with middle-ground DA values? (I still don’t understand the thing about single RR vs Ravager btw)
Also true, however from my experience it’s more accurate than red dog tests.
Buffed Crucible only comes to mind. But it’s not low variance, just lower than SR. 4x dummy reset or 8x reset is super low variance when you are comparing timers of different versions of the same build. I usually do all of them many times and just try to listen to my gut (but also do a reasonable thing based on my knowledge of game’s mechanics)
Dog is much more sensitive to your resistance reduction values than the “field”. Also more sensitive to dots because of how much dot can tick over the time of a fight.
Yup, it was done specifically to get 9 Savagery charges which you couldn’t do with the Axe alone.
I’m not quite sure about that.
Recall that my old Ravager tests with the axe alone (8 charges only) did worse than the solo Rifle both in peak scores and average scores.
Anyways, I guess these are solid arguments and evidence in favor of the rifle not being merely a “gimmick”, but something actually practical.
Also you seem to forget that the range the rifle provides complements the lack of mobility really well.
wait, that’s possible? Only now I am noticing it. Seems like something that Zantai will fix sooner or later.
Hey, man, if you made up your mind about it, just do it! I was basing my opinion off your Crucible video and off numbers alone. But maybe with that extra charge exploit that I didn’t see before there is indeed something to it.
Hahaha I knew it! I kept yapping about it and even edited that trick into the op. I knew you’ve been speedrunning reading my replies as well that you skimmed that detail lol. But I’m not offended, it’s understandable and relatable for me. Also I probably should work on making my yaps more to the point and less verbose :\
My crucible vids are not to be trusted as my performance is like 1000 light years away from actual veteran speedrunners like you and all the awesome hardworkers that made the Top 20’s
I just realized, isn’t it crazy how the solo rifle beats solo axe in dummy x8 (and even Ravager)? I know the rifle has an extra Savagery charge, but solo axe has +16% Crit damage and higher base and % lightning damage. Seems like hundreds of OA is very significant even vs low DA targets.
well your build is literally entirely crit dependant so maybe that is the answer to this. Maybe if you can test both crossbow and axe with the same OA numbers you will get a different result.
But I don’t know how to embed it.
Looking at it I don’t think your OA difference makes much of a difference in damage. Crit chance goes from 35.1% (3780 OA) to 35.7% (3830 OA).
I suspect it’s the 15%WD to savagery that helps more.
I was referring to the double rare alt ranged weapon mentioned here, the Skyfallen rifle of Ferocity:
So yeah, it is a ~258 OA difference.
Edit: According to the calc you linked, the extra ~250+ OA vs the dummy is close to 3% extra average damage. But to be fair, the +15.38% WD from +4 Savagery is indeed huge.
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