volley type (chill rounds) shoot 2 bullets from left hand right hand on dual wield, so 4 total, 2h shoots 3
shotgun wps (storm spread type) shoots double the amount of tooltip bullets regardless, which means you shoot 8 on dual wield(4 per hand) and 8 on 2hand (or 8 on just 1h with offhand/shield)
on regular single shot wps there is no difference (zolhan/markovian), so there it’s 1 bullet “per gun”
Ok cool, so storm spread is especially good on 2H ranged then.
It’s not just Storm Spread. Plunderer’s and shoulder granted WPS both shoot 3 bullets for 2H (only 2 each hand for Plunderers on DW). Pyroclasm shoots 2 bullets for 2H but only 1 bullet each for DW. Chilling rounds shoots 3 bullets for 2H but only 2 bullets each gun for DW.
All the above help 2H ranged builds in a lot of cases close the gap to DW that the game has formed over the years adding various flat sources that apply twice for DW gameplay. So while DW ranged enjoys twice the flat, 2H ranged has access to much higher total WD% multipliers on WPS.
Melee has nothing like that. 2H melee weapons have no access to inflated WD% multipliers at the base level and therefore completely suck in AA gameplay compared to DW builds. The only exception to this is Avenger becaaaause… you got it, Avenger has access to inflated WD% multipliers for WPS it supports.
Outside of Avenger 2H melee has to resort to Blade Arc, Primal Strike or occasional Reaping Arc builds, and very few of those can stand any ground compared to DW or ranged gameplay.
It seems to depend on the base hits per second of the weapon. It’s not special for 2H, just 2H have less of it to start with I think. I’ve also noticed it with some gun build I was making. I added say 15% attack speed, but on the sheet it only increased with 14/13 or so. I don’t know how it really works, but it’s doing something funky for sure.
And it is unintuitive. Attack speed should just add up and then it should multiply the number of hits per second. It would help 2H weapons.
Weapons have their own base speed, and this base speed multiplies percentage speed.
For example, base speed of Avenger’s Crusher is 83%, then, 40% speed from gears, passives and devotions will become 83%*40%=33.2%. In the sheet, the speed raises from 83% to 83%+33.2%=116.2%%, rounded to 116%.
It may or may not be good game design, but I don’t think that it’s unintuitive that it’s harder to increase the speed with which one can wield heavier weapons as compared with lighter ones.
Yep, an unintuitive mess…
I think it is. Attack speed should just increase hits per second by that percentage. And attack speed should just simply add up. It would be easy, obvious and equal for all weapons.
It’s unintuitive that it’s not clearly communicated to the player. Nowhere does it say that Avenger’s Crushers has an 83% attack speed modifier. (But the game is full of this kind of secret mechanics, so I’m not surprised at all that it works like this)
the “unintuitive” part is what base aps translates to combined with the hidden % multiplier to take that into effect as the total %attack speed scaling
but the game does or rather can tell you this when we look at the item stats.
When I say that it’s not unintuitive, what I mean is that the outcome is what my intuition tells me would happen in real life: if I have a dagger and a claymore, I expect not only that the claymore will be harder to pick up and swing but that it would take much more effort to become more deft in its use. (Obviously in the Grim Dawn universe the “effort” turns out to be wearing magic gloves and such.)
I agree that there are a lot of covert mechanics in the game and that this is one of them. It’s a feature of many ARPGs, I think, that there is a whole lot of stuff that one just has to know. To some extent it seems to be something that players of these games like.
The game does show the APS that you will end up with but doesn’t (so far as I know?) tell you how APS is calculated from your weapon’s base speed and your % bonuses.
not really what it does, should be noticeable in the pic too?
but just for comparison
it doesn’t “directly” explain it to you, but as the pic showed it does display it, you go from 100% to 83% equipping the 1.48scaled mace, “now you have a 0.83 speed multiplier”
Only when you equip an item on an ‘empty’ character. If you have any devotion, skill or items that alter attack speed you’ll have no idea what’s going on. If you know about the mechanics you can probably calculate it from the APS, if you know what the 100% base is, but this is exactly why I said that the game doesn’t tell you. You can only deduce it from what the final numbers are. I also suspect attack speed is actually has more precision in the engine than is displayed in the UI, as the damage tool-tip does increase even if your attack speed doesn’t.
Either way, black magic 
(Also means slower weapons have a higher maximum gain from attack speed, as their 200% is relatively more than for faster weapons, but good luck getting there.)
One of the solutions is would be indeed increasing weapon bases for two-handers. Especially raising lowest value. Stuff like Avenger’s mace for example is a complete casino in terms of what weapon damage you are going to roll in any given moment.
