A question about dmg conversion (with armor piercing)

Take a weapon with 100 physical dmg and 10% armor piercing stat for example, if I wear a necklace with 10% phy > fire, how many fire dmg will I get from this conversion, 10 or 9?
In addition, is that 10 piercing dmg able to be converted by other piercing > whatever dmg source?

Armor piercing applies last, so 100% is converted. Damage -> conversion -> armor piercing

and damage can only be converted once, so the damage that has been converted into piercing (via armor piercing) can not be converted further.

Well, if i understand correctly it’s the other way around since Armor Piercing comes last. Damage that has been converted to physical through normal conversion can’t be converted to piercing through armour piercing conversion (because as you pointed you can only convert once). You couldn’t convert the pierce damage from armour piercing anyway as that conversion comes last.

Not trying to be pesky but it’s complicated enough :rolleyes:

And to further complicate stuff there’s also regular physical to pierce conversion that happens at the same time as any conversion :eek:

That’s wrong. Armor piercing DOES come last. Conversion DOES happen once. So, if you have physical damage converted to aether, let’s say 73%, 27% of your physical damage has Armor Piercing applied to it. If you have 100% elemental damage converted to physical, and 20% armor piercing, you have only physical damage, as conversion did already happen in this case. Armor piercing is basically “x% physical damage converted to pierce”, but written differently and behaving differently, because it only applies after conversion which has the text “converted” in it.

And it also have a different “increase mechanic”. If you want more say physical > cold damage conversion, you have to stack items that gives that stat and the total conversion is the sum of the individual items/skills conversion (assuming everything is happening at the same order in the conversion chain)

In order to increase phys > pierce conversion, you need “+% armor piercing” and that is multiplicative. Meaning if your sword has say 30% armor piercing and you insert a blessed whetstone with “+50% armor piercing” your total phys > pierce conversion is 30% + 0.5*30% = 45%.

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He’s not wrong. You are both saying the same thing.

His point is that talking about pierce (armour piecing) not being convertible is irrelevant since armour piercing comes last. For all we know it actually can, but due to damage equation structure it simply won’t happen.

So rather state it the other way around.
phys from conversion won’t be affected by armour piercing.

Yeah, after reading it again, it is the same as I said before. I don’t know how I misunderstood that, tbh.

So, as long as I have, let say, 100% phy > fire conversion, the armor piercing stat on the weapon has no effect to my weapon dmg at all?

In princple yes, even thought it might be impossible in practice obtain that on gear and (non-transmuted) skills.

You get 10. Armor piercing comes last and is not a dps lost

Thanks all who participate the discussion. :slight_smile:

Wait, I’ve played too much PoE lately, I don’t remember how it works in Grim Dawn. Is any conversion after the first conversion based off the initial value or the remaining unconverted value?

The remaining unconverted damage. PoE conversion is different as that’ll happily convert damage that’s already been converted (& % damage bonuses are applied mid conversion, so if you have phys -> cold -> fire, you can increase the fire damage with +% phys, +% cold & +% fire bonuses, as well as flat damage).

I may be mistaken but I don’t believe you can convert converted damage in PoE.

NVM, I am mistaken apparently.

I wasn’t quite correct, in PoE, damage is converted, then bonuses are applied, but there is a conversion order:

Damage conversion only flows in one direction between types, possibly skipping types, but never going in reverse:[4]

Physical → Lightning → Cold → Fire → Chaos

The reason is that conversion is an iterative process from one damage type to the next, so if it goes backwards there’ll be an infinite loop.[5] Converted damage can be converted further itself.