Have fun. Really close call near the end, but then facetanked all three at once after that. If a build with an average set like this can still beat Gladiator, how in the world can’t all the builds you mentioned not finish Gladiator?
Belgothian, Cold Breaker were never meant for no buff/banner crucible. Even now they’re not inefficient crucible farmers. If it’s like that for you then you might want to adjust your playstyle depending on the build you play
We still have reliable crucible farming builds and no one is asking them to get nerfed so think before you speak about people asking for nerfs. I think its you who needs to carefully look at what is being called for nerfs and why it is
I am not a fan of nerfs but if you go with this attitude then you can’t save the item/skill from getting overnerfed. Which is why imo it’s prudent to contribute to such a thread so that “balancing” is done in moderation
This is pure horseshit, if you think nerfs killed build diversity. The only time they went overboard with their nerfs in my entire experience here was during the Blademaster and S&B nerfs they handed out in base game
And even that got “fixed” after many patches
“Why?”
Well people are unimaginative and can’t make their own builds work in crucible that’s why. I’m no crucible expert but with some fine tuning and with a careful playstyle almost every build can beat Crucible on Gladiator. If people really think only selective builds can do so then they’re out of their minds
Yeah I can see why you’re mad, you want to stand there in a single spot and want all the waves in crucible to die on their own
And Electrocute warder got nerfed this patch
There are plenty of crucible farming builds more than Zhuugus has in his thread
Krieg is the easiest set to farm, if you think it’s difficult to farm then RNG is probably against you but the drop rates are ridiculously good.
Mindwarp is pure RNG
And since when did drop rates factor into balancing decisions?
To add to this
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64167
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63617
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63726
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63132
I’m not a fan of nerf threads so I don’t make those and I doubt anyone is either. Weyu has only made two threads regarding nerfs so far and both them i grudgingly admit are valid concerns raised by him to a certain extent
So basically you’ll see more buff threads than nerf threads
Thank you for the video. Looks like i am wrong about the Casters after all.
I admit such a build could solo most of the crucible situations reliably with decent DPS, nevertheless when facing sudden situations such as fabius/maiden with 75% crit damage, i am still skeptical in its ability for surving through the harshest conditions, despite this build being Go to for casters. Not to mention the Calidor’s tempest build also utilises Heavy armor, caster armor was subpar for a very long time until the last patch buff, i am yet to see the difference at this point in time.
I have anticipated this build as i did follow it for a time. However. When compared with Sword/Board build such as force-wave tactician you can see Sword/Board has the option of being much safer without sacrificing too much DPS.
In this video, not a single moment did his HP drop to even half the threshold. I admit, it used the Buggy seal of blade at the time of this video, but seal of blades made very small difference in the overall survibility, not to mention the author provided some very good alternatives in anticipation of the coming patch. With some re-spec including the Shield wall devotion, there is very little in the game can actually kill the build.
My conclusion is that for a caster you have to literally use heavy armor on a specific setup to even match that of sword/board is very disappointing to see. I built on my conclusions largely on this thread
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61983
which i agree fairly, there are indeed some very strong caster builds, but noting how most of them still rely on the typical heavy armor/Investment into Physique. There are a few outstanding caster armor sets such as the DEE builds, but it relies on an abundance of kiting/dot damage.
However, based on all current evidence I have indeed overreacted and will conceit in this argument.
Back on the topic at hand, If Aether death Knight really needs a nerf as so many claims, then nerf haunt more than anything due to it’s ridiculous life leech resist reduction. This would allow Krieg user to have a choice for either CD reset or Rattosh for the life-steal resist reduction. From my experience DK perform slightly better than Force-wave tactician, however i am hoping the devs wont ham-fist a nerf that will diminish the build significantly. I am happy with Crate’s balancing decision so far, but i wish more buffs on classes that require more than others to just catch up.
-In a different thread I did say that I prefer to bring attention to more exotic concepts so that they can get buffed so I can understand one’s stand on “buff the weak ones”
Everyone in this thread has pretty much said “don’t go overboard with the nerfs” including myself so there’s hope it won’t happen 
-As for Haunt nerf, i disagree with both you and Dreeg suggesting this, if anything buff Rattosh’s life leech RR. 8% is subpar for a t-3 devotion
Also, Haunt is used by other builds as well. Another nerf to it would hurt them. It isn’t the sole reason for DK’s success but rather it’s the synergy with DK. It works so well with Krieg because Krieg set is pretty strong in flat damage bonuses, my entire argument so far has been to nerf Krieg set to the point that it remains the “go-to” option for Battlemages and design a brand new set for Deathknight. Personally I kinda hoped we’d get a new set when it was announced that DK would be getting new items
-While your opinions formulated from that thread aren’t inaccurate, there are examples of builds that aren’t heavy armor/shield users but are reliable glad farmers.
As for DoT builds you say “kiting” as if it’s a bad thing. On a DoT build kiting is the best part as you can literally be assured that the target will be dead regardless of what you do. It seems you want every build to faceroll everything if I understand you correctly, it’s not a bad thing to wish and it’s possible to make builds do that but you also don’t seem to like the idea of giving up damage to gain tankiness. I think you’ve gotten too used to playing “unbalanced” builds and can’t accept the idea of a “compromise” (no offense btw)
-And lastly on the topic of Callidor’s Tempest, you can go S&B with Callidor’s tempest. It’s not really related to the point but i’m just saying it’s a solid option
A lot of people are and always have been for quite a while
Well good to see some post want adding more fun
To add to this (didn’t link all the feedback threads btw :p)
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64167
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63617
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63726
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63132
And recently made another fuckin’ Blade Trap thread (yeah I want that skill to not suck donkey balls) -http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64183
Yes, because vitality/RE builds facetanking everything isn’t a problem either. :rolleyes:
Crate had the right idea in originally making bosses resistant to life leech, just like freeze and CC. Unfortunately, just like as previously happened with freeze, people jumped all over bosses as soon as they figured out how to bypass boss protections to these effects. Haunt wasn’t as big of a problem pre-xpac because vitality DPS used to be so low, but now with numerous sources of high vitality damage (RE+conversion options), the power of life leech RR has been blown wide open, just like people exploiting freeze RR on nemeses as soon as cold damage got boosted.
Non-damage RR (especially to bypass boss protections) is extraordinarily powerful and ripe for abuse. It’s not Rattosh that’s too low in life leech RR - it’s Haunt that’s still much too high. For example, Ravager has 90% life leech RR: therefore, even at the “nerfed” -20% RR, Haunt still allows a build to leech 3x as much health as they would otherwise, which is a crazy survivability boost and a big part of why vitality builds have been trivializing Gladiator recently. (And keep in mind that Haunt is a lowly level 35 relic, not a level 70 or 90 relic - how does that performance boost compare to other level 35 relics?) Even Rattosh by itself boosts leech by 80% against Ravager before you consider the damage increase (and therefore leech increase) from the vitality RR portion.
I agree with Avatar of Dreeg in that it’s not necessarily one specific thing, but the convergence of many things that’s making Aether Krieg DKs the outliers that they currently are. We shouldn’t be looking at one huge nerf but many smaller adjustments, and I think all the different factors (Mindwarp, Haunt, Krieg, etc) should all be on the list so that the individual adjustments wouldn’t be as severe as they’d otherwise be.
problem is not the Krieg’s Set neither Arcanist or Necromancer in this topic
as someone already pointed out here Soldier is insanely strong and from my point of view the problem.
very easy to level and play. as long as you know what you are doing you don’t even need special class combination sets. Soldier just stupidly amplifiers every small point of weapon based damage. the equippment is pure decoration for most part of the game when playing soldier :rolleyes:
the active Soldier abilities have very very strong ratios so the slightest sort of flat damage goes nuts when used with those spells.
melee Necromancer on itself is decent and so is melee Arcanist.
It is just them building up on Soldier already long time existing Absurd scalings on Blitz/Cadence and to some degree Blade Arc/Forcewave.
And for the ones who brought up Belgothian and Blademasters, it was never appealing at all for me since Cadence offered a ton of more damage compared to belgothian’s strikes for very little costs especially when using 2 reaver’s claw and 2 part valdun + blades devotion for full armor piercing but that is a different topic
IF something needs some Changes for balance it is the Soldier class, not the Krieg’s Set or necro/arcanist.
anything else in changes would miss the point of this topic 
This thread went silly, however I like that the Krieg Set is potentially very strong for either DK or Battlemage. Leveling a Battlemage without “lol use blade arc” is grueling and a practice in masochism anyways especially since besides force wave, nearly all S&B builds will end up using Cadence for.the.whole.game. I like the idea of a jump in power and clear speed when I’ve dedicated some time to farm the MI’s which is pretty mind-numbing to say the least. I really doubt most people even have time to do that. You could argue the nigh-unkillable retaliator builds or a doombolt proc CDR reset spellbinder / warlock are OP if they’ve farmed their specific sets. Its enough of a pain in the ass to gamble for Shar’Zul’s world eater or the Decrees for normal players without some theory-crafting worrier making end game even more of a chore for two of the most hum-drum builds to level.
Exactly. As said, these are the kind of builds I like to play too, why would I shoot myself in the foot?
If one build is conspicuously better than others, it can make your other characters or effort put into them feel cheap because everything else feels weak in comparison.
Again, this does not mean the build’s power should be neutered. A lot of the people afraid of nerfs are probably scared of the PoE style nerfing where their modus operandi is to absolutely cripple the thing that was OP and then also nerf 1 or 2 other things related to it so that no one wants to play it anymore.
They most likely do that on purpose so people will end up trying other things in order to keep the game fresh.
I’m not asking for that and Crate generally doesn’t make changes like that either. They may have gone overboard a bit with the BM changes but those were buffed over time after that.
A few small adjustments is all this Krieg DK needs.
To add to this
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64167
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63617
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63726
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63132
I’m not a fan of nerf threads so I don’t make those and I doubt anyone is either. Weyu has only made two threads regarding nerfs so far and both them i grudgingly admit are valid concerns raised by him to a certain extent
So basically you’ll see more buff threads than nerf threads
I think I’ve made like 4-5 buff threads and 2 nerf threads since AoM, and one of those nerf requests turned out to be a bugged item.
But yeah, I’m beginning to see what Zantai said about how people perceive nerfs and buffs.
I do like that Crate is dedicated to nerf/buff builds that only affect a part of an already small part of people who can complete ultimate
Most these people are of the “OMG it’s a SP game! Should be, all BUFF all the time!” The other variety are “NERF?! I hate that word and I hate you too!”
Both variety’s don’t have a fucking clue to what they are talking about and are operating their opinion of nerfs literally on pure “reaction” to the word “nerf”. Hell, I don’t know what I’m talking about either but at least I know enough to know that both are needed in ANY game, no matter if it is SP or MP. The people who do have a good understanding of game mechanics, how they work, the math involved, the implications derived thereof etc nearly always advocate a mixture of both. I know which type I back on these issues. The choice isn’t hard.
To any who just read my paragraphs above and had your feelings hurt… good. powbam does still work as intended, on occasion.
All that just gave me a semi. Powbam needs a nerf.
The minor derailing of this thread reminds me of the 1.0.0.6. ABB problem. I specifically said back then that if you allow ABB to be used with 1h weapons, the first consequence will be perma-freeze builds. Everybody cried: “YES, but that will allow build diversity to flourish !”; “It will be fun !”; “Wow ! dw gun freeze build”.
Guess what happened in 1.0.0.7 and 1.0.0.8 ? People started to make perma-freeze Spellbreakers - a problem which was corrected in 1.0.0.9. by completely butchering some items (e.g. Beacon, Night’s Embrace, etc.) that haven’t been used ever since.
Life Leech, of course, is not as safe as perma-freeze when it comes to negating damage. It has, however, a history of generating OP builds. In fact, the Blade Master’s power was a product of combining huge single target DPS with Life Steal. Retrospectively, you realize that all those nerfs directed at the BM were ultimately a product of its performance vs what represented back then the optimal way of farming. More explicitly, there was no Crucible… therefore jumping from boss to boss in BoC/SoT was the optimal way to get your gear. The BM was exceptional at that because it had: a) high mobility; b) high single-target dps; c) sufficient DA, HP and EHP to put 50% or more points into Cunning.
Once the Crucible dropped, the inherent lack of AoE and low stun resistance made the build obsolete, so WBs and Commandos took the crown. Most people, it seems, have a problem not with the fact that Krieg DK can tank and kill Ravager. Retaliation tanks can do that even better. Subconsciously, though, ppl know that those builds are held back by the fact that it takes a million years to kill Valdaran and Zantarin, while the DK is a jack of all trades, master of all.
DaShiv made a very good job at pointing out that there is a way to reduce the Krieg DK’s efficiency without butchering the set. I also pointed out that the there is not a single culprit, but several things combined that make that cookie-cutter build a statistical outlier.
As a side note, reducing LL resistance reduction on Haunt and RR on Mindwarp will actually not hurt Battlemages that much. Battlemages can reach 40% absorption + 6 seconds of immunity (if you take TD). They also have access to a lot of interesting toys (i.e. Turion). In fact, given how many defensive layers they have at their disposal, they do not need life leech in order to survive. The fact that people don’t build Battlemages as retaliation tanks (wink wink…Turion) is their problem, not some inherent deficit of the class.
- What does retaliation have to do with Aether Melee builds?
- How Mindwarp RR nerf won’t hurt Battlemages that much when they’re the ones who got less RR? It’s the opposite, DKs won’t be hurt that much!
I made a Battlemage Ret/reflection build in vanilla and when I saw Turion I was excited but frankly I was a little let down by it as I expected it to strengthen the Reflection potential of Battlemage Retaliation than just add more Retaliation to MoE. The shield is good of course, it just doesn’t do what I want it to
And I agree multiple “slight” nerfs might help solve this mess but you can’t say Battlemages won’t suffer from RR nerf on Mindwarp, damage absorption has nothing to do with kill speed against aetherials. Which is why a 10% extra RR through skill mod to Arcanist wouldn’t hurt. Also, Aether Battlemage already has Will of the Living (so does DK) so it’s more than covered in the “toys” section
And why’d you suddenly bring up Ret Battlemage in a discussion about Aether Battlemages?
Because Battlemages have more options when it comes to end-game gear and viable builds. As Superfluff also pointed out a long time ago, aether Battlemage is actually bad. People just assume that if you have flat aether on Reckless Power and the name of the class is Arcanist, they should go aether melee. Well, it turns out, that is one of the worst possible builds you can make on a Battlemage. As in the case of the Darkblaze set, I believe this issue can simply be addressed by putting some -% aether RR on some set or giving more bonuses to Spellscourge.
The DK has no other option than going Krieg. This is because before 1.0.0.3. there was NO DK set and putting +necro skills on Krieg was a simple solution to address this shortcoming from behalf of Crate. There was, indeed, a missed opportunity to make a hybrid melee/on-proc pet build, but all those items were completely transformed and re imagined in 1.0.0.3.
Take a look at what DK support exists outside Krieg. You have some cold/vit scepter, some vitality/physical related shoulderpads + leg-guards, a vendor mace that transforms blade arc into a vitality skill and…Krieg. In other words: bad support for anything that is not melee aether.
P.S: The Battlemage’s performance is ultimately hindered by the fact that Arcanist is the only single class in this game that has no RR that works on bosses. The physical damage synergy, for example, is borderline impossible due to the way OFF works. Crate never addressed this and I believe it was because they considered BM to be so tanky that an extra aether RR that actually DOES work on bosses would make it OP.
All the more reason to add some skill mod on Mindwarp to add aether RR to arcanist. I disagree with an aether RR skill mod for Spellscourge, how the heck would aether RR make sense there? It’s designed for Physical Battlemage (in a weird way)
On a side note, I’d still prefer if they give Aether DK a new set
I wasn’t referring to -RR aether on Spellscourge. I was referring to giving it some CDR reduction (which Krieg has,btw) to allow higher build diversity. My bad, should have given more a explicit description of what I had in mind…