And thus another FOTM build ready for the dumpster. GJ guys after Cold spellbreaker, Lightning pets, Dracarris, Belgothian, Cablist etc etc.
Are we Diablo 3 yet? because you all sure would love to make balacing like that where every end game player needs a minimum of 10 minutes to kite a single nemesis or the game is no “fun” :rolleyes:
Stop this nonsense in my single player fucking game.
Why would you nerf an item so extremely rare that i manage to farm for 150 hours in crucible, completely farming multiple mythical set items/recipes including deathmarks before even seeing 1 non-optimal stat version drop?
Isnt the point of the game finding powerful items and be POWERFUL!? It isnt a moba or anything, it is a gear grinding game, and Mindwarp is exactly that reward :rolleyes:
Yeah but before Krieg set with DK bonuses this wasn’t that much of an issue, sure it was T-1 but wasn’t really something that needed looking into. The core of the problem is that set
It did facetank an incarnation of Ravager but that incarnation wasn’t an Anti-Tank ravager but it was only possible due to Krieg Set, so minor adjustment to bonuses and removal of Necro bonuses should solve the issue w/o causing too much problem
I have personally tried it, as have many others even before DK bonuses were added. I agree on removal of DK bonuses and slight adjustment on set bonuses but don’t agree on adjustment to values on Spectral Binding if need be then fix the scaling in Ultimate levels and not in base levels.
And when I say adjust the scaling I mean the flat damage and not the flat OA/HP. Those are important to all necro builds, that flat damage is only important to a certain necro builds and won’t penalize every Necro in existence
Build wrecking everything isn’t exactly an issue but I can see what you mean
Remove Necro bonuses and adjust flat damage a little so that it doesn’t punish Battlemages too much should be fine
As for the issue being restricted to DKs, this is only true as long as they don’t touch stuff like OA and HP bonuses on Necromancer. The problem is Aether Deathknight, so what ever changes are made should be restricted to Aether Damage bonuses and Krieg’s Set. They shouldn’t touch OA and HP on Spectral binding or Master of Death
Really, those builds don’t work anymore? Did they become not viable to the point they can’t kill any Nemesis in a respectable time? Because they’re still Top Tier last time I checked. I am not a fan of threads like this but if something like this pops up then the best thing to do is share your thoughts and knowledge of things so that balancing is done properly than saying “throw everything into a dumpster”
As for the builds you listed the only nerf I dislike is Belgothian and the general treatment of Blademasters in this game
Krieg’s set impact over killing the Ravager of Souls on a DK accounts for maybe 25-33% of the success variance. The reason it did (…and does) so well has more to do with:
So…let me give all a breakdown to why this is so by analysing the defensive strategies ppl employ in this game in order to survive Ultimate. Bare in mind that the primary difficulty of this game - which is actually not that difficult to begin with - is finding a balance between offence and defence such that DPS does not plummet when you engage the hardest content. Ergo, it is a min-max game.
We have:
General defensive strategies: Overcapping resistances; Leech; Block; Flat absorption; %absorption; Dodge/Deflect.
vs DoTs: Overcapping resistances; Hp regeneration; Leech; %absorption.
vs High DPS: Overcapping resistances; Leech; Circuit-breakers; Block; specific flat absorption (e.g. Crab, Runeguard, etc.); Dodge/Deflect.
vs High physical damage : Physical resistance; Armour; Block; Circuit-breakers; Dodge/Deflect.
vs Shotguns : Dodge/Deflect; Circuit-breakers; Block; flat absorption, %absorption.
vs resistance reduction : Overcapping resistances; Leech; Block; Dodge/Deflect.
Good scaling defensive strategies: Overcapping resistances; Leech; %absorption; Dodge/Deflect; Physical resistance; Circuit-breakers.
Moderate scaling defensive strategies: Block; flat absorption.
Bad scaling defensive strategies: HP regeneration.
As you can see from this list, ADctH (Leech) is the 2nd most powerful defensive strategy in the game right after Overcapping. Make a checklist to see how many of the above defensive strategies are simultaneously employed by Krieg set DK and you will arrive to the right answer of why it is (borderline?) OP.
My initial suggestion was simple: nerf Haunt to -10% LL reduction. The value on that relic is too high, viz. 2x a T3 proc. Life Leech is the only defensive strategy that is simultaneously also offensive in nature. More precisely, the more damage you do, the longer you survive - providing, ofc, your target has reasonably low LL resistance.
My second suggestion was also simple: nerf the RR on Mindwarp. This item is also borderline OP on a high attack speed S&B DK. Perhaps, it is even more powerful than the Master’s Spellblade.
My last suggestion - DO NOT over-nerf DK set. As I previously pointed out, the set in itself is not OP. At most, spectral binding bonuses could be reduced along with armour values or, even better, the high amount of physical resistance it provides.
As much as I don’t want to admit (Not the battlemage, noooo), Haunt is a big part of success. People already tanked Mogdrogen with it, sometime before expansion, I think, but with Aether-melee getting much better in expac, it really took off in usage (and for its intended damage type!).
However the Mindwarp RR nerf will hit battlemages harder, than it will DKs. Luckily we got skill mods, -aether rr in Krieg set for some arcanist skill? That would be a solution, if you want to nerf specifically Death Knights.
Mindwarp’s RR is FAR stronger than spellblades post 1.0.3.0 nerf. Max roll on spellblades is 37 type A; max roll on Mindwarp is 36 type A AND 36 type C. Mindwarp also has far, far better non-RR bonuses than spellblade.
Krieg’s set is also OP IMO but in a different way than most people think: utility. The CDR bonus (set already contains reduced cooldown skill mods), 9m skill radius (same size as skill on Mythical Herald of Apocalypse), and possibly the flat RR are all fairly gratuituous for a melee-centric set - these are the types of bonuses more appropriate on caster sets, and are part of reason why reason why Krieg builds are super well-rounded. IMO the CDR bonus should be removed, the proc should be reduced to a more melee-appropriate AOE, and the RR should be significantly reduced, replaced with physical RR, or removed outright given that Mindwarp synergizes so well with the set anyway.
It’s one thing to have a strong melee set; it’s another thing to have a strong super-defense, CDR, AOE, and RR melee set. If a pet set also had super-defense, CDR, AOE, and RR on top of pet damage, everyone would be crying foul. Krieg’s bonuses aren’t necessarily too strong, they’re simply too broad.
In fact, those aforementioned bonuses (CDR, AOE, RR) are a far better fit for the Spellscourge set, and that set can use a lot more help than Krieg. Compare the bonuses between the two sets and Krieg looks simply ridiculous, especially given how easily it’s farmed compared to other legendary sets.
Shit. Just decent CDR on top of a pet bonus set would be a start.
Even Diviner’s Vision lacks it for everything but off hand.
Of course Haunt was part of the success but you can’t say Krieg’s contribution was little, the reason is that besides the Life Leech RR it also has Aether RR which synergized well with the flat bonuses on the set
As it’s known ADCtH works as well as the damage you inflict, Aether RR+Life Leech RR blended well with all that flat aether damage giving you maximum ADCtH potential
As for Spectral Binding nerfs it’d be best if they don’t touch anything besides the flat aether damage on it, the OA and HP bonuses are fine and are important for other Necro builds. Flat Aether damage can be adjusted to Flame Touched levels
They should just remove Necro bonuses from the set and design a new one anyway, when it was announced DK will be getting it’s own set everyone assumed we’d get a new set and not get an old set with new bonuses. Even if DK has to go w/o an exclusive set for a little while it’s fine as even before the bonuses to DK were added Krieg was fine for DKs
As for Mindwarp nerfs, if they plan to adjust Mindwarp RR potential then they should added more RR for Arcanists through a skill mod
The set is actually meant for Aether Blitz builds so CDR on it makes sense, the flat damage on it should be adjusted. The RR is again there for Battlemages, this is my first time hearing the AoE is “too good”. The AoE looks fine as well if need be only the CD on the granted skill needs to be increased. And yes the extra RR on the skill isn’t needed due to Mindwarp synergies.
I am not saying adjustments aren’t needed but these two things don’t need to be touched upon. There are other things that have already been mentioned by people in this thread that should be looked into but CDR and AoE aren’t one of them
Because god forbid this game has any sort of balancing, regardless if it’s single player or not. Why should Krieg’s set be this good, while other legendary sets remain crap or just underpowered? Is Krieg’s set is somehow special and should be above the others, for some reason? No, it shouldn’t.
And are you seriously implying that those builds are “trash”? Those builds can still completely destroy the entire content of the game, they are just less ridiculously strong now.
I’m leveling a DK right now, it’s the first time I’m copy pasting a fotm build in like 1000 hours of playing this game. I spent like two afternoons grinding the set and my guy is halfway through elite.
If you guys get this build destroyed I’ll be P I S S E D.
Can the build i listed reliably solo crucible without the need of a thousand buffs so they dont get one shotted? i dont think so.
Really i am starting to dislike this forum because it is controlled by a small extremely vocal minority who constantly want to nerf a build they deemed strong without even look into the practicality of it. It started with blademaster in early release but is slowly creeping into every single build thus far and spirit is still an absolutely worthless stat, devastation/aether ray builds never recovered (and dont tell me your build is somehow amazing with endless spamming while swords/boards can just stand there until any boss in game including supers die).
There are builds that desperately need a buff just so they can catch up for everyone else. And it is important to note this is A GRIND GEAR GAME, the goal is to become powerful, the idea of it is to obtain GG items so you can run certain bosses under timed limits/or kill the most powerful ones.
By constantly nerfing every single build that seems slightly out of line you are killing diversity because the player just moved on to another FOTM, then that gets nerfed too. This way of balancing or feedback is extremely toxic and is why Path of Exile/Diablo 3 for a while is nearly unplayable without cookie cutter build of the flavor. NOT TO MENTION THIS IS A SINGLE PLAYER GAME! Another goal on top of your gear finding is finish the damn game, be it killing the final boss or Ravager then move on to play a new char or another game. THERE IS NO LEAGUE/SEASONS/COMPETITION INVOLVED OF ANY KIND. So it is purposeless to nerf powerful builds which already required so much of the farming to actually complete. If anything else, dev should look into improving existing builds that are relatively paper (Sorcerer/Panettie builds, cold spellbreaker etc) so player can actually choose viable builds instead of just copy and pasting another AMAZING CRUCIBLE IN 3 SECONDS MUST SEE from forums. You know what i am seeing on multiplayer right now? Belgothian dominated the release patch and as soon as it is nerfed, Krieg sets are now literally in every single game/crucible matches, i wonder why. Nerf Krieg and people will just move on to Electricute warder or something, on and on and on until we all end up kiting shite most of the time. Do you see why I’m so mad?
Kriegs for example requires 5 MIs every single of which needs 20+ runs unless you are extremely lucky, and is by definition a very end game build. Mindwarp which i established early on is one of the rarest item in the game, which in a Grind gears game fits how powerful it is. I am not playing this game for balance or seeking competing with other people for fairness ala MOBA, i got dota 2 for that. I am playing to find good gears to become powerful and kill bosses that i struggled before in seconds. This is a basic goal in any grind gear games even PoE or Diablo 3 despite their online nature.
TL DR? My suggestion is that Kriegs is fine for how extremely difficult it is to obtain on top of the job it is ment to do once you aquire every bits of it. It is absolutely fine as an end game build, one that you will finish the game content with. Stop looking at how powerful it is because it is MENT TO BE, and actually bother to look at other pathetic ones like sorcerer/purifiers.
Because god forbid player kills a nemesis under 30 seconds in a full set of GG end game gear build. Are you even playing ARPG? Those builds CANNOT reliably solo crucible no matter what, see the difference there?
Instead of nerfing something that is obviously doing its job, how about looking at how worthless spirit is and some of the set items/legendary that are outright vendor trash?
Just go get GDstash and proceed to roll an electrocute warder/another sword/board flavour of the month. It is what everyone do these days with their grimtool builds :rolleyes:
Or you know, a build is crushing things so quickly and devastatingly that the developers even agree that it needs toning down.
That’s the case of builds like Phantasmal Blades, Lightning pets and Coldbreakers that in some shape or form were nerfed because they at one point or another could take on the Avatar of Mogdrogen and in record times too.
That said though, just because they are above the rest does not mean when they are taken down a notch that they immediately become useless, here’s a post from Zantai during the Lightning pets vs Mogdrogen topic:
Does Krieg rekt Ravager/Avatar like Lightning pets? No. He needs full defensive re-spec and even then, Ravager of minds can easily 2 crit kills him due to RNG.
Lightning pet build now being reduced to something that cant even reliably solo crucible is a sorry state.
Those builds can’t reliably solo crucible? Are you serious? Do i have to post videos of those builds soloing Crucible with not much issues after the nerfs? Think before you post utter bullshit statements like those.
Also, Krieg’s set extremely hard to get? Are you joking? Please tell me you are joking. Krieg’s set is the easiest set in the game to get. It took me 3 hours of farming to get it and i got multiple copies of each part before i finish it. The other legendary sets are far harder to get because there’s no specific enemy that drops, it’s all random. It takes next to no effort to get Krieg’s set while i haven’t completed some sets in over 1500 hours of playtime.
The problem here is that is FAR better than all sets. It’s an undisputed fact that is just too good. Too much physical resistance, too much CDR, too much of everything.
If your build need a set like this to reliably kill Nemeses in a fast time, then your build is extremely bad to begin with. I can kill Nemeses in around 30 seconds with Agrivix set and that set is average at best.
Why never a post “Analysis” for upgrading crap item? Post for nerfing item is easier ?
And i’ll await your extra solo 2 iron maiden mate :rolleyes: I’d rather be humbled if you bother showing.
On the otherhand, once Death Knight gets nerfed, people will just go 100% battlemage with near 40% damage absorb :rolleyes:
A friend of mine got two Iron Maiden and a Fabius at the last wave of Gladiator and he finished it. A caster build with Agrivix set, the most average set in the game. Just shows how much bullshit your statement is.
if you not showing me a video and rely on verbal abuse, dont count me to chip in again :rolleyes: