Since the recent Cadence buff I really don’t see any reason to use a 2h weapon over a DW or S&B setup.
The S&B Soldier has so much going for it - best defensive mechanic in the game AND best item set in the game, while the damage is so high that it puts many 2h weapons to shame. The only other almost comparable 2h setup is the Ultos set, but it is way less sturdier then S&B. But how did that happen? 2h weapons are supposed to be a more DPS oriented option, but the game mechnics don’t really suppor that well enough. Why?
2h weapons come with a huge Atk speed malus and Atk speed is really important in Grim Dawn, because it is a somewhat rare stat to collect. Instead 2h weapons offer superior base damage. But…
Base damage is abundant in the game. Deadly Momentum and Menhir’s Bulwark both add generous amounts of flat damage and every other Class in the game offers its own supply of flat damage. Naturally, flat damage will also help 2h damage, but is more effective on a weapon that attacks faster -> 1h weapons.
Shield is a stupidly powerful defense. Overguard is an utterly broken ability - the massive block recovery ensures that every 10 out of 18 seconds the character has over 1500 flat damage absorbtion with doubled health regeneration.
Now I understand that the game needs a powerful defensive ability for players who want to play tanks.
But why does the best defense also come with a great offense?
I use cadence on my 2H warder and love it, her dps spikes to around 80k with buffs but a lot of it AOE so her clear speed is very good. Not sure about the sets though, I need her OA to be higher to really maximize that dps and currently at only about 2300.
Without specific gear, as long as you are going Soldier…I don’t see a huge reason to go 2H. I did go 2H on my Chaos Cadence guy…Because I wanted to use a 2H Crossbow I found the set to. And I went 2H on a Shaman/Soldier Primal Strike…Because Shaman and Primal Strike. Other than those kinds of things…I see little cause.
Is there a reason to do anything other than the most OP setup?
A game as complex as GD will invariably be imbalanced in some way, resulting in some methods and builds being stronger than others. Does that mean you always have to gravitate to those ‘superior’ methods?
It will take a feature freeze followed by probably a decade of balancing to make everything equal. Until then, we can play non-OP builds for “fun” and “challenge.” This is, after all, a mostly singleplayer game.
Haven’t played S&B in a while, but looking at how Cadence/Deadly Momentum/Obelisk of Menhir changed it’s no wonder that S&B is close to 2h in performance.
As for 2H, levelled two builds up to lvl 85 in the last month.
One thing that I find unbalanced is while 2H builds do receive a penalty towards attack speed bonuses, they don’t receive a boost to flat damage bonuses, which makes the most common way of raising damage for 1H comparably less effective for 2H. Playing as 2H you stack attack speed, convert phys damage to another type and then stack %bonuses for this type and get resistance reduction. Fun thing is, you also get penalty to damage conversion, because as shield or DW you get 15% innate from shield/DW plus 15% from each component. As 2H you have 30% innate and 15% from component, short of 15%. And conversion is important if you don’t run a pure phys build.
Also unlike shield builds that are said to not even need the Shieldmaiden/Obelisk, any 2H build goes Kraken. Moreover, if you are the beginner without perfect gear you would need defensive devotions as well, pretty much why all of my 2H builds end up being pretty similar.
There’s also small stuff of Potent augments being straight weaker than 2x non-potent ones.
Overall, I keep saying that 2H isn’t terribly weak, I would even dare to say that 2H is a goldmine of beginner-friendly builds. But for some reason we don’t see many 2H builds rocking the gladiator crucible.
In a game like this there will always be superior options. A real problem occurs when a certain archetype encroaches on another - S&B is designed to be heavily defensive, yet it can pull the same damage as a DPS oriented archetype.
I concede I never brought a Primal Strike build to 85. My best was 50, with rifle. Not a terrible experience, but doesn’t struck me as OP or something. I expect it to be on par with Fire Strike, esp. since Torrent no longer works on primary target.
Maybe it’s high time I made a primal strike warder, would be my 3rd 2H class to complete the game on ultimate hardcore.
But still, mind me asking who exactly here never played primal strike with decent 2hand, besides me ofcourse, and what’s the logic behind it?
As weird as it seems i also have limited experience with Primal Strike, on my Ultos Conjurer i had points in it.
It’s okay, nothing special, that’s my opinion of the skill.
CD PS is good for Ultos builds should they choose to use it, but zero-CD PS is kinda meh
i was exaggerating abit by that comment, cause primal strike is just so good with any decent 2hand weapon even it can be good roll rare…
i can list tons of reason to play 2hander over shield guys but since meta is sword and board i dont care at all…
2h shaman has access to BROKEN aeo clear, easy physical resist from savagery, easy oa + da + hp regen , insane life boost, innate life leech from brute force line also has access to some easy forms of RR, with CoF + ele storm + arcane bomb + viper… can mix phys + light dmg types etc.
but if you say, s&b can do same with safer i agree but the answer we seek is,
other melee toons are so strong and needs to be tuned down
or caster gunslinger and 2handers are weak and needs buff…
after other caster topic, now this one popd up, heck dw pistol builds are worst compare to all and goes on…
Phys res from savagery only applies if you have at least one charge of Savagery, and you would want to have Primal Strike on LMB. It’s possible to buff youself that way sneaking Savagery hits in-between PS ones but it’s quite wonky imo.
Same goes for easy OA/DA.
Life leech from Brute Force comes from Feral Hunger, and Feral Hunger doesn’t work with Primal Strike.
Since when CoF belongs to Shaman? Or you mean one particular class - the Conjurer? Well, probably one of the best for ranged PS, but I wouldn’t go melee PS with conjurer. I may be wrong though.
Also, I was interested in Primal Strike only, but you gave me a ton of arguments that got nothing to do with Primal Strike. How a primal strike warder would be different from blade arc warder? I have access to the same stuff but only use different core skill.
i was talking about general primal strike shaman setup, is there any reason why you dont use savagery with primal strike ??? cause primal strike spam is weak compare to CD version. also savagery line is just so good to pass…
if you find play style wonky its totally diff story and kinda your choice actually. if you dont go strongest route because of personal choice it doesnt make generall skill or build bad tbh.
CoF was an example for RR, it can be thermite mine and goes on…
feral hunger works with savagery so it fits my setup…
and no i would never ever play 2h primal strike build as warder , where elementalist and conjurers are there… tho its me, not trashing the warders…
i mean my crucial question was, what we are trying to do with these topics?
we are trying to voice that 2handers , casters , gunslinger are weaker than meta builds and needs buff?
or we want meta builds to be tuned down ?