About the actual topic: I don’t think the procs on seeker and seru is bad, they seem pretty good or fine at least especially when you consider the low recharge rate.
But I think that the stats that you accumulate whenever you are going for seru/sage are more often than not underwhelming compared to other setups. Movement speed was one example of a stat that has very underwhelming values when going for seru/sage that was mentioned in another thread. Whether tier 1 purple devos need a buff or seru/sage’s nodes need a buff I’m not quite sure, but something needs a small buff in the purple/elemental corner of the devotion map imo. I have no proper spreadsheet with me right now, nor do I have new suggestions other than the ones I made in the other thread about adding movement speed to seru/sage, but I have the feeling the purple/elemental devotions need a small buff of some sort.
The very notion of any res being useless for x build is a bit incorrect. There are paths and builds that may always benefit from the res. In addition, if you are looking at it from a certain context (like say not needing as much res overcap in CR) then let me stop you right there. Although the situation may be rare, you need everything at least 30-40% over cap (including pierce) or rng will stuff your ass back into the hole you crawled out of.
I’ve used both Seru and Sage extensively in the past. There in lies some of the problem of my post before I go further, lots has changed since AoM’s release and I have been intending to revisit the two builds I was playing in HC and lost.
Seru and Sage are mostly caster devotions, Seru being harder to use without conversion one way or another as pointed out above. Because they are so deep into purple and green, the issue I always ran into was survivability.
The best context I can put it in was I played a mage Hunter with both Seru and sage and could not clear CR 150 (which was cap) without banners after AoMs release. The game is far different now. More testing would be needed but having said that, the damage has been rather low in the past and Seru had pathing issues. Also there is the whole knowledge gain on the player’s side.
On paper the builds look solid but they will likely still be too meme and for MC and rogue dungeons only.
In the end, a pass over the T3 procs in terms of dmg could be a good idea even if it means no changes.
Also, both the builds I used did not have DA/OA issues. The other build was a tactician.
I agree with the OP except I think Blind Sage is a in a great place because the nods and proc (when converted) are powerful and devo itself can be combined with Ultos or Ulzuin’s Torch. But, Disruption res could be buffed to 50% since it’s a super rare stat and usually Items/Skills that have it have already 100% of it.
Seru - I just don’t know. You can build with it with conversions and proc is fun but it’s always gonna be inferior to Spear/Aeon or Spear/DG or even Spear/Rattosh for Aether builds and to everything else for Elemental builds.
Also good point about crit damage on procs that can’t be utilized properly because devotion route having so little OA.
EDIT: Never seen retal builds using purple devos much tbh
Its about builds. I can tell you only from my 6 chars point of view, all melee, Dervish, Warlord, Paladin, Blademaster, Infiltrator and Spellbreaker.
From those, majority won’t need additional Bleed and Piercing Res as much, or at all ,but SOME DO. And thats enough to be cautios.
Seru is an interesting subject. It’s fun to use and on paper would work extremely well in niche situations like binding Reap Spirit to it on Diviner (if you can deal with going Seru/Sage insteaf of Spear/Dying God for the route). That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to it getting a small bump.
The real problem is defensive stats like health, phys resist, other resistances and maybe DA imo. Ultos requires less so you can compensate the losses and it gives fine OA. I never used Leviathan so no comment on that matter. Ulzuin, one can put three points and get those chaos resist, crit+movement speed and %5 OA it’s very nice even without the proc. But I like elemental damage builds and most of them lack OA and DA, you can focus one of them by gear and you have to improve the other from devotions or vice versa but most of the builds lack hp and phys resist, and movement speed also. Purple mostly have good devotions for elementals but they also require a lot(like yellow) and most of the time if you’re aiming for seru or sage it means you have no extra devotion points to improve your missing stats. I wouldn’t oppose to improve those devotions’ stats to balance their requirements. Phys resist, DA or Health would be very nice, poison and bleeding resist or Total speed is also good enough or maybe adding some CC resist and improving Skill Disruption is an option. Or atleast adcth. I have a few elemental builds that if I use Sage or Seru they will loose a lot of DA, Health, CC resist and physical resist and other resistances so I prefer blues instead. Their damage is good I’m aware but some build cannot compensate the survivability from gear but they can gain Damage from somewhere else.
I have tried them all and made feedback back in the days. So:
Sage have great % damage boost to the tri-elements. Proc is OK, when it detonates. But not lots of AoE. Disruption is lower than blue ring, that’s weird.
Seru proc have low CD, used to be higher. For aether builds is usually better to go upper left corner instead, since you gain so much stats and valuable devotions. Plus you can take Aeon or DG or Korvaak on top of Spear. Seru can be used on elemental builds with aether conversion and that’s it. I would like to see slight stats buff, proc is fine more or less.
Leviathan is my favorite cold devotion, at least visually. But route to it lacks OA, so much OA. Something also weird is the lack of WD on the proc. Something like 10-15% should help casters utilize it better. And that’s another thing, Leviathan should work better on casters with CDR but in reality they prefer everything but Leviathan.
Ultos was slightly nerfed, now it’s good without being OP.
Torch is the best one from the group. Stats on it aren’t much better than the rest, but route is fitting for fire build and proc is on high CD but is easier for procing. So it’s well balanced.
Since I play modded classes in addition to the regular game, I use all sorts of different constellation combinations. Where I’ve had the luxury of converting Elemental to Cold damage, I’ve had this devotion map that uses both Elemental Seeker and Leviathan. Similarly for fire, you can easily get Seekers + Torch. Here are a few things that stand out:
I honestly don’t see any Aether builds that would use Attak Seru + any other constellation instead of Spear of the Heavens + Time Dilation. Aeon’s secondary bonuses are so good that none of the other Green + Purple devotions can match up to it. When you check out the list of items that give Skill Disruption Resistance, the only items that give partial resistance and not 100% resistance are Mythical Spellsage Boots, Mythical Eternal Band, and a few green suffixes. That means that Aether damage really doesn’t benefit at all from the Green + Purple. That doesn’t include the obvious fact that Widow - the Aether RR devotion - gives Blue affinity only, so you’re going out of your way to grab that.
One other point - the best combination for Elemental converted to Aether is Spellbinder - where Aeon’s + Spear is supreme because of how well Mirror + Mark of Torment go with each other. I’m not sure there’s any Aether build that would not use Arcanist or Necromancer and additionally benefit from Attak Seru + anything else more than Aeon’s + Spear. Maybe Inquisitor + ??? with a lot of Aether conversion, but Inquisitor does Elemental damage much better than Aether damage anyway.
Attak Seru’s nodes are fine - the DA is especially good since you’re nearly universally going to be taking Wolverine to get the required 16 Purple and that has 40 + 4% DA in addition to Seru’s DA. I think the larger point is that Owl and Harpy are not particularly good T1 Purples, and non-pet builds aren’t going anywhere near Shepherd’s Crook, so there’s no good way to get the affinity. Chaos has Ghoul + Jackal for the Total Speed buff and amazing circuit breaker, Eldritch has Hawk + Raven as great low-cost T1s, while having Bat and Behemoth as other universally great devotions. Primordial has the best T1s with Eel + Sailor’s guide + Viper, with Solemn Watcher as a great T2. Order has either Dryad or Crane with Scales now being really good.
Purple doesn’t have the same wow factor. Wolverine is the best of the purples with the massive DA. Guardian’s Gaze is a really good proc, but the stat nodes have nothing on Bat. Other good constellations that give purple affinity are Harvestman’s Scythe, Alldorah’s Phoenix, and Crab, but they don’t stand out as well as Bat, Ghoul, or Scales. If you need flat RR, you have Manticore or Elemental Storm, but the constellation doesn’t give nearly as good stats as either Scales or Revenant.
Put all of this together and you can see how the Green + Purple devotion route falls behind the other devotion routes. I’d start at the least by buffing Owl, Harpy, and maybe Empty Throne so that getting the required Purples don’t feel as arduous as they do.
Ulzuins Torch. On some builds with low % burn (example Invokers set), the Magi shows only ~ 15 seconds less time in crucible.
Suggest: add ~20 fire damage on proc.
Leviathan. I don’t like the constellation path (low OA), but if Zantai add DA shred on proc (~150) this is a good way to improve it.
I think, Ultos and Ulzuin are fine in current state. Seru and Sage have harsh requirements, but such is the price for their power (and they are mighty devotions indeed). The constellation map is already balanced (at last) and do not need further reconfiguration. This is my opinion about the matter.
This is probably one of the stranger devotion paths that I’ve used, but for this build in particular it was the strongest. Seru + ratosh on an aether build https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLa7n4Z
Now think that, you have relatively low OA and DA, low phys resist, almost no CC resist but If you don’t take Seru, you can compensate some of them to survive better; thank god it’s a caster, no melee aether build can use this devotion setup. I’m repeating the proposition, Seru needs some phys, elemental and CC resist, and Sage needs chaos resist and speed. Or atleast dividing these stats balancely to the other purple, green and both constellations can be done imo.
I really like the damage procs of seeker and seru, but I don’t enjoy the path and stats to get there.
I find Quill and Toad to be irritating in that they grant 6 affinity for the price of 4 nodes, they almost feel necessary and/or diversity limiting for this advantage over other options (e.g Owl). Very few constellation provide such bonus to affinity, but only these two are so common due to purple weakness (wraith is niche in comparison).
I think a good contender for some OA is Wolverine (wolverine gear affix do provide OA after all), it may have good DA but it is no solemn watcher with it’s two retaliation nodes (useless for most builds). Putting some OA on the +50% retal node makes most sense, so builds using just the four nodes won’t benefit.
I wish Crab requirements were altered, 4 order makes it very niche for elemental builds, and it is niche for phys too (can crab be fit in with ulzaad + t3? Not sure, but I’ve never had the spare points for it).
@ the original post the devotions are fine… here is an example of a build you use clearing SR 95( which is way past what crate considers a base line for builds) using both seru and sage.
having x5 currents out is the equivalent of 6 lvl 22 doombolts every 4.5 seconds. It easily is one of the highest dps constellation which is why that is balanced against lower offensive stats in the devotion path required to unlock it. (And the higher total required) So it isnt very much of a surprise that it performs so well on a sorc, fully converted, and with lots of OA that is inherent on that class. The case could be made that it should provide a bit more defensive stats if that is the niche it supposed to fill with its high offense proc.
I use it also on my deva/mortar sorc https://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4LAgrN and it is one of the fastest builds I’ve ever played. Granted, it doesnt have deep SR capacity. I’ve managed clear to 70 with it, but I’m really not a fan of SR.
The point was to show how strong the proc itself is that it functions and helps carry a build with small stats and lacking a major damaging attack. Granted the build in game is near 2900 oa and 2800 da with decent rolls (5% oa on offhand and 4da on relic) The build also has ~200 more effective OA due to flashbang and ~300 more effective da due to OA shred from SS and bwc. Of course a melee aether build wouldnt go this route as it would miss out on a lot of attack speed and options for adcth
I’m an experienced SR player, my runs aren’t best wat to judge the balance.
The fact I did it doesn’t mean it’s okay. Iskandra Sorceress is ok, but Seru path is not
Look it doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that if a build can clear sr 95 then someone playing with 1 hand can clear SR 75 without breaking a sweat
Sure, it’s not the Sorceress and Iskandra synergy, it’s all about Seru that does the job. I think your Defiler might take 95 SR as well. It has Seru too!
