So 1. I’m a bit salty about how Gutsmasher builds are stepping on this set’s toes. That biases me.
2. I particularly want this to be an archon set since I think archons are cool.
The issue is that if you try to make this set good for warder and archon, chances are you just end up with warlord unless Zantai figures out a clever way around this. But we can ignore that/worry about it later.
The attack speed on the weapon helped but it could be higher. The archon version lacks so much attack speed that it has to dip into righteous fervor for the temporary buff.
The resists on archon are quite poor in important overcaps: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/qNYOzrBV
archon avenger lacking: elemental resist, acid resist, aether resist, chaos resist, vit resist (and of these chaos resist is the most fine)
Made of paper in SR.
My initial thoughts: Some of the phys resist from the proc can be moved to the set itself.
Flat phys damage on the set or to savagery would be fine.
The AS speed on the weapon and the proc can be a bit higher. For variants of the build with excess attack speed it won’t make a difference but for archon it’ll help a lot.
More resists. Also potentially 15% vitality resist on massacre relic would be fine. I doubt it’ll make bleed builds OP.
The weapon could use hp regen and the torso could use %hp regen.
I don’t think people take doombringer for bleed (?) so maybe drop the bleed support on it in favor of another good resist there too?
Agree that Avenger still needs buffs. And no, Gutsmasher builds are not stepping on it’s toes - they’re far away ahead.
I think, there’s no need to focus on archon only and leave set as it is. It fits warder really well, and Avenger warder is probably the sturdiest one from their family (compared to Ultos at least).
AS shall be increased to 24%, like on Gutsmasher.
Additional damage to savagery will also look nice.
The set’s proc should be reworked completely and made permanent. Also, a bunch of % phys damage should be given to the proc, like on Warborn’s one.
If you still wanna the set to keep using regen mechanics, you need to boost it into skies, to get 5-7k of it. Otherwise, it’s almost useless cuz bosses may hit far harder.
*Changing the res on belt for sth really useful, like aether/some cc-res.
Also, Doombringer is never taken. For warder, it’s always 2 Bloodrager’s helm&gem.
I took doombringer with archon. In general doombringer can be a bit stronger.
I think the proc on the set being permanent is a bit hyperbolic. It could be made a bit more consistent though. I think gaps in your buffs make for more interesting gameplay. Yes it can be frustrating to play around but it can also be fun. Convenience is often the thing that homogenizes builds whereas the quirks and clunk are what defines some of the charm.
I don’t agree at all that the hp regen needs to be that high if the other aspect of the sets are improved. As in, the more you improve the other aspects the less you need to improve the hp regen. The more you improve the hp regen the less you might need out of the other aspects.
That being said in my opening post I do think the weapon could use some regen and the torso some %hp regen. I could be wrong and I do try not to speak for Zantai, but I think he values hp regen too highly in the stat budgets of items. On the other hand I think he’s also considering the campaign experience. Not enough hp regen in SR might also be more than you need for campaign. Still I don’t think people play through campaign with full sets for the most part, so I don’t see this as an issue.
I stand by that I’d like it to be warder and archon friendly if possible because those are 2 class types I don’t see too much of. But I agree warder should be the priority I guess, since we see the least of it.
Well, so if it’s intended to play Avenger with regen, it still needs bigger values cuz melee can’t afford themselves to kite and have to facetank all incoming damage.
And anyway, %phys damage should be added, imo. It’s not healthy when a set which is (probably) intended to be a flagship for 2h phys melee, loses to a bleeding/phys set, and loses much.
I think not enough value is placed in Regen as just a supplement on top of your lifesteal. It’s being looked at too much in a vacuum.
It can make a significant difference when you need to kite, and after 1khp regen you start to feel a difference even in melee if your other stats are there as well. And that’s true %physical damage is another way it can be buffed.
Like, I’m not pushing back that you feel the hp regen is not yet significant enough. I just think too many people expect to fucking facetank constantly in SR60+
And one more point, about the weapon’s proc. It’s almost invisible. And if u manage to see it, it looks ridiculous.
I’d like it to be changed to look like Ugdengolems root attack - more far and more powerful.
I would like doombringer to be an even better for for archon avenger. Then you can be an Archon of Doom! I don’t mind if it fits warder too.
You want mythical doombringer to inherit the flag? That’d be neat as well. I really liked the flag on n the non mythical version. That might make it super strong for some other builds though. But I rather the flag get toned down if that’s what it takes to get it put on the mythical version.
This is me being lazy and going with “Just give Warder some -% physical resist reduction” since that would honestly fix their damage but I don’t really see a way of making Warder better that doesn’t involve changing Oathkeeper skills.
If you add -% physical RR to Shaman, Archon gets a buff even though it’s already stronger.
If you give some to Soldier, you buff Warder but you also make Warlord stronger for no good reason.
If Celestial Presence and Divine Mandate swapped bonuses (assuming it was possible) you’d just get Aura of Censure 2.0 then you could slap some on Oleron’s Rage which is now Censure 3.0 Physical Boogaloo . Now you’d probably have an issue with physical Witchblades.
My final suggestion is to delete Warder
I’m ‘‘sensing’’ a lot of Archon bias here and if Zantai reads this I really hope this won’t be the case in a future rebalance as I for one love Warder version and ZT.
When FG launched OK made Avenger much stronger than WArder with massive crits, more IT, more RR ( more so now with revenant which kind of makes up for OK nerfs that have since taken place). With the only inconvenience of having to dip into RF
This is a set that i’ve tested a lot since it was at it’s worst in AoM, nearly unplayable outside of MC and had pages of feedback to even get where it is and it would be disappointing for it to culminate in favor of OK, as things often do.
It’s pretty easy to give Archon something but help Warder get in line as well.
Give the set seom more % AS (both profit)
Make the set proc more reliable or give it more phys res (both profit)
Bit of Savagery …same
Make ZT hit more targets in a wider arc. If you agreed with Feral hunger mod on Troll club, I think it’s fitting here as well. I dodn’t mind Archon doing more raw damage if Warder has more functionality
Anything else you can think of for warder i’m more than open for it
Here is what I got: 8:05 Gutsmasher/Bloodrager Warder run. Definitely faster than Avenger (9-10 minutes), but not as fast as I expected. Grimtools..
So yeah, if Zantai reads it, AVENGER SUCKS AND HP REGEN ON MELEE TWO-HANDERS IS A USELESS GIMMICK. What you need is a lot of raw dps (Weapon damage, %damage, crit, OA, Attack speed) and a lot of ADTCH.
There is no reasonable number for HP regen for builds that have to facetank 100% of the time. Regen is good for kiters, melee need big dps and big adtch coupled with good defenses.