Backer Rewards and DRM-Free Copy

So you can say that you barely care about 10% of your costumers, mostly backers who put the money upfront in a leap of faith, but just because you are honest, you are all right? The problem is not about being honest or not, its the mindset here expressed by a developer that hurt some feelings of the backers. But the solution is not lying or hiding or saying it differently, the solution is caring about that 10% as much as they do for the other 90% even if they are a minority.

I agree with people having patience though, but the problem is that besides giving a break, a lot of people also gave money, and didn’t receive what was stated and instead of a sincere apologize, compensations as other companies do, they receive an answer about how they are not that profitable, how he doesnt care much about the no-drm community and stuff like that so of couse some of them are going to get upset.

He apologized on numerous posts, maybe you missed them. He offered refunds for anyone who was interested in a refund.

So… ??

Do you want him to post a video groveling for forgiveness? Nobody needs to do that.

Look at the first page. I see the words sorry a couple of times atleast

This is a misunderstanding of the context of what I said.

I never said one customer was less important than another. A customer is a customer and I care about them equally regardless of what version they’ve purchased. There is an ethical obligation to try to provide a good product and service to people who have paid for it.

My previous comment not about the value of customers. It was a hypothetical comment about a situation where you were trying to decide whether to target a market or not - to decide whether to sell a product to them in the first place.

In this situation, I’ve already made that decision and because people are now customers, I am doing what I can to try to please them.

It’s funny that people are also now going off about how making decisions based purely on business considerations and pursuit of profit is unethical, when I clearly said the opposite.

I said, if someone were making decisions purely based on business considerations, it would be good business to pursue 10% of the market because it would be profitable.

However, immediately after that, I said I didn’t start a company just to make money and didn’t make decisions based only on profitability.

As it is, I made a mistake and I’m working to correct it. I’ve already invested a huge amount of time and effort in getting this DRM-Free version ready, beyond what it took to do the steam release. So I don’t see how you can say I don’t care about customers or am doing less for the DRM-Free version when it’s additional work and has proven to be a huge amount of additional stress. I’ve already said, I ran into trouble and underestimated the time it would take to get this out, so all I can do now is apologize and work toward fixing it. If that’s not enough, I give up.

It is never going to be “enough.”

No matter how many times you apologize, no matter how much correction you guys make, it will never appease people who NEED to feel like they’ve been victimized so they can bleat “I have been injured/wronged and it’s your fault!”

The ONLY way to placate some people is to invent a time machine and go back in time to fix things for them. Mature forgiveness and moving ahead, gracefully accepting amends is impossible for some people.

No matter how well intentioned, no matter how appeasing, no matter how sorry you are, some people will twist what you say into being an offense so they can wallow about in feeling victimized.

Don’t let it get to you.

Originally Posted by SLR
There is no reason to discredit Steam to those that understand it and like it.

Let’s stay teammates! If I remember we both are here because we got a good reason.

You know what I meant: that quote misses the point in that what I said of course applies to THIS thread and this thread only.

The reason I quoted you was as a defense strategy, to not risk (unjustified in face of the matter) anyone’s (that is from my POV, someone justly involved and rational in the situation we are facing here) ban or removal (silencing). By doing that I counter-balance your intervention; someone coming in with the intent of “correcting” you or taking administrative measures against you feels a bit warmer and predisposed towards you as I have addressed this and I have been clear and “mean” enough.

Some things I wrote in here, can seem trollish or worse: you have to read between the lines. Why?

Well if you read perhaps any of my full posts, you will see that I am very generous (the real word is overly but I did “not” write it because it is too solid, direct, and deserved - but I mean it and this could be understood in this context; without me resorting to typing it; by some people here and not all others) in giving praise to the developers and those responsible for this organization (the praise that IMO they deserve). Why?

I wrote a post a while ago that took me OVER 30 minutes to write, and it was very moderate, I sent a dagger but it was wrapped in a fun little tale, some mistakes here and there, maybe a contradiction somewhere etc. and it was removed. I’m fine with it having happened.

Now after the new technical details we have learned, the “revelations” that have been raised to the surface by the lead developer, his personal stance etc…Imagine if I would take 45 minutes - or more - to address the new developments with chirurgical sharpened words, perfect or close to perfect execution and in the tone that is aptly deserved - I would leave no room for speculation, all cold as a blade in the chilling winter atmosphere, as they merit. Guess what would happen to it with a high probability? And :wink: Illiousintahl is right; the spellchecker would mark around 30% of my text in red, not because I just became inapt.

I also want to say something else, and it disgusts me. Now how wrong can some people be about others while being convinced of the opposite?
I have a profound contempt for the ways judicial matters (personal or organizational) are dealt with in the modern world (this era) and with many of the professions thus involved (The men and women have nothing to do in it, Law is [and more likely was] a reputable study.) What disgusts me is that (if you are right) you can use every intellectual means and just get ridiculed (very wrongly, no honor [personal/familial/organizational whatsoever]) until the moment that disgusts me: the legal threat. Then you get something or everything, depending on how far you are willing to go. Then the individual or entity says: I can’t believe it… these guys… everything is a lawsuit today. Here’s your money, now get out, oh what was the world become!?!

I am truly apologetic, but your post could use some tidying up for clarity.
I get exactly what you are saying; though it was very difficult to read and understand.

Oh and (http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94614#post94614) you can visit the future today, as it is repeated.

I explained to crate what the sentiment of the community they we’re engaging with was, I explained that they needed to engage with them early and how it is doing a disservice to themselves not to do so back in 2013.

As to other notes on the forum so I’m not posting 5-6 times in a row like last night (hopefully) if you consider steam as not having a monopoly then why are developers openly stating ‘rest of the market pfft, I only did it to rake a little more’. The way things, are even if we are only 10% is because we have fought tooth and nail to try and unlock the market (GOG certainly seems to appreciate the payback helping us has done for them; just look at every service that instead has tried to BE steam. [For further example of niche vs parallel just look at linux & microsoft currently as windows fails to try and become an apple & instead will find itself only becoming a lemon]).

Actually I find the real problem here is that most of the sentiments have been out and the forums grown that long in wait that the same sentiment is having to be re-fought.
Though I have to give credit to SLR for extrapolating business client relationships with maths; I mean I could with my science background go into a detailed analysis using excel, but that is a crazy amount of effort for still not being able to communicate the point.

I can’t post pictures with my browser at the moment, but here’s an E-Hug Medierra your obviously starting to frazzle.
Anxiety like depression tends to rub off on people.
I suggest venting with friends, not with an anxious community; words tend to come out wrong when your under pressure and it is understandable.
I cannot speak for others, but I for one do appreciate your candor and that you’ve stuck with it engaging us.

That’s fine then. I hope then, that the key redemption thing doesn’t also require Galaxy.

You are full of surprises. I opened the red box with orange glitters, the springing boxing glove delivered the uppercut and my jaw hit the floor.

I am heavily dumbfounded by the pertinence of your post made in 2013, the justness of the observations you made and of the advice you gave back then; it is prophetic :cool:.
I was shocked; I only realized the age of your message after I read the post. This has a heavy meaning, many posts in this thread, maybe some of mine too, have thus been rendered way too gentle and forgiving as we assumed Crate was taken by surprise in the unfortunate matter of this problematic release.

I didn’t think this was possible, that an Internet forum post would make me not believe my eyes. By not having revealed this link before this moment, you created; for me at least; a genuine feeling of stupor and disbelief; for a brief moment magic was real.

I have already made some posts just above, I see no need and feel no urge to further comment on this 2013 contribution. Instead, I can now fully recommend the discourse in Dargenus’s post some page before if you’ve skipped it. It is poignant, pertinent, and on target.

It will not.
On crates behalf Medierra has stated that the GOG.com redeem code will be placed on the humble bundle site account we have all been visiting (I’m assuming it’s a redeem code not a serial key; probably semantics I know).
It’s a couple of pages back, but for accuracy always go with a primary source.

In my actual experience using Galaxy, it does not do much checking as I have had other people install games on one of my pc’s (I actually have 5 systems & 2 primary gaming; only just tried out linux for the first time a month or two ago to see how gaming was coming along there too)…

Anyways Galaxy saw them as it registers a directory as containing GOG games, it scanned and added those titles to the list of installed ones… even started updating them (successfully).
This is for games I didn’t purchase myself for a galaxy account that I always assumed was linked to my login only.
Obviously it is not; it is seemingly fairly detached from the main site.
I could probably gripe that it doesn’t seem to allow me to ‘hide’ them from the install list, but when I can turn off auto updating & that I don’t find scrolling that much of a chore I kind of don’t worry about it.

By the way those considering Linux as a move away from windows I will say two things…
a) All distro’s seem to still require you to be comfortable using MS-DOS style CMD.exe line input (and I am/was) for getting things working, &
b) GOG games did not take me much to get working, unlike minecraft though that was primarily the hassle java presented wanting specific libraries.

I was not happy with the Linux experience; if it’s making progress to becoming more friendly I shudder to think how it was before I ‘met it’.

As to SLR’s post, I did read & ‘digest’ Dargenus’s ‘Genesis’ :slight_smile: , the problem I had & I’m not going to engage in trying to tear it apart or providing fodder for it, was that I found it overly aggressive so much so that it strays a little far from the reason he clearly has applied to underpinning the subject matter.

To tell someone what to think and to simply educate them are two different things.

“Not being able to play something you paid for, something that requires no internet access, because a service platform decided you are untrustworthy is pretty jarring and makes one not want to purchase a game on a service platform ever again. “Why the hell did I buy this on Steam?” was going through my mind.” You can feel the rage ebbing from it.

The problem with arguments as opposed to discussion is that it creates a barrier intrinsically and instinctively between those involved and accordingly the goal devolves from the navigation of the issue at hand to harm minimization (risk to self including stress).

He makes grandiose claim that a non-DRM version will not exist, where arguably there can be no certainty one way or the other.
Medierra states they have signed a contract with GOG, I am inclined to believe him.

If I look at my options, if I didn’t believe him there is simple and open recourse (refund); should I demand ‘pics or it didn’t happen’? there are reasons to deny (GOG may want it’s dealings kept under NDA against competitors: reasonable); and lastly should I believe him, but that comes down to what I have to lose or gain when I accept that I am not looking for a refund at the moment.
To not take him at his word while under duress, is little more than to torture him in a form of inquisition for no practical purpose; and I say torture for a reason.

He has been saying what has occurred, but it is not accepted; so then what? Do we pile on more stress till he either has a heart attack, quits altogether (though unlikely) or just says what he thinks we want to hear… then has to repeat the situation when the reality creeps back up on him?
At this point it just seems malicious (though technically that word only means done with intent).

Hi,

Yeah, i got most of what you said there, as i mentioned in my original post, but never mind, that last part there was the only thing i needed to hear. Thanks for replying. That clears things up.

I do not want DRM. I’m playing in steam. but by the time the game content in my version loyalist? so difficult that in steam? thousands of games put you up the content for early access.

I have the same as you paid 10$ on Steam Christmas deals :frowning:

Personally I am one of those “10%” backers who prefer a DRM-free version. (and if it’s a GoG version it’s even better)

But while I am disappointed that there was no simultaneous DRM-free release; as long as there is a DRM-free release soon and that it’s not lagging too much behind the Steam one in term of support and updates, I don’t mind waiting a little for it.

Hopefully the wait will be over soon… :wink:

i still believe that if anything we should have gotten it sooner but meh… it’s quite pointless. medierra sure as hell won’t respect any backer more than a real customer. we are all the same to him. no point in getting him down any more though… not that it was ever the point. i guess i just wanted to be treated differently. actually with more respect… not less. it is all hindsight and we will just have to wait or get a refund via another shit option that is paypal. i knew how this would be going down after they’ve made the alpha and beta steam only… i was pissed then and was pointed the proverbial door after i ranted for a few days. this is just a replay.

man i really do respect your indepth insight but hell… try to proof read your wots before posting them. i’m having a really rough time understanding you.

This thread shouldve been locked after the initial post. This is why I hate people.

Thanks for the updates Medierra, you are doing everything you can with the unforeseen recent limitations. Take some time off, enjoy the weather, friends & family and unwind.

“unforeseen” this was foreseen as far back as 2013.
Anyway, why should it have been locked? Should paying customers not be allowed to criticize and question a company over delayed promises?
The only thing that should have been done (and really isn’t too late) is the banning of people who, after at least two warnings, continue to goad people who are concerned about the delays.

There was another mini-replay just last week when the game did not get released drm-free by the 4th like promised.
Dev seems to love making promises, but hates keeping them.

Not believing a dev who has already broken promises 3 times about the exact same thing (drm-free) is TORTURE? I mean, if you wanted to use it metaphorically, but you seem to mean it literally. Are you retarded?

Edit: Some dick edited my post. Fixed it.

This is why I hate people?!

Lock the thread?, yeah, shut the media and everything as solution?

Anyway, be glad they didn’t so now you have a thread where you can post your borderline pyscho statements.

You hate people?, what is this turning into?

Lock the thread?, yeah, shut the media and everything as solution?

Anyway, be glad they didn’t so now you have a thread where you can post your -I hate people- speech

please refrain from personal attacks. this isnt helping any side and will just get your post deleted.