lmao, this is hilarious and spot on
And sadly, it won’t be un-nerfed.
Yeah. I’m quite close to giving up on providing feedback/balance suggestions to Z.
A lot of the decisions made this patch make Z.E.R.O. sense, and has done nothing but to further widen the already growing chasm between OP builds, and underperforming builds
Oh no…
With drama like this, whatever shall I do.
Be as sarcastic as you want, Z. But I’d like to think that I’ve been rather objective and reasonable in my feedback.
P.S: For the record, 1.1.5.0 is not without its merits, as I’ve mentioned in another post.
Forreal dude? Try considering that no matter which voice Z throws a bone to another group may pop up and complain about the decision or say it doesn’t make sense. When the players are almost completely united against a change Z tends to acquiesce regardless of his personal stance (GD is already a bajillion times easier than Crate originally intended) but just because something doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it didn’t make perfect sense to another group of players with different preferences for the game.
Also some people have a much higher sense of how homogenized the game should be for “balance.”
For a visual example some want the worst vs best builds for item sets to be this far apart:
- Worst -------------- Best
And others want the range of performance to look more like: - Worst ------------------------------------------------------------- Best
We’re never going to all agree but there’s no need to be dramatic and obtuse about why a specific change is implemented. Regardless of whether or not I agree with changes I can usually decipher some line of thought as to why a change was made.
“I’ve been rather objective … in my feedback.” There’s literally no such thing when it involves feedback. Pointing out the disparity of performance between two things is one thing. What kind of disparity should be allowed, what should be changed, why, etc. stops being about objectivity.
It’d be like saying “Look, set A is outperforming Set B by this much.” Objective. -> “That shouldn’t be allowed/that’s fine/this should be changed/etc” not objective.
Or even more clearly:
“There’s a disparity between these 2 sets’ performance. Make them more equal, that’s objectively the sensible thing to do!”
Is incorrect. It’s not that simple at all.
This is so true Grim Dawn is so easy now
@adoomgod:
Perhaps I was being over-the-top. Still, certain decisions like…
- New vitality offhand
- Buffing explosive strike
- Beronath ammy
- Nerf to aether SBoE
- Addition of a new shadow strike set when deathguard and dunefiend are bloated and blue for having lain dead in the water for such a long time
…don’t make sense to me.
Right. I stand corrected.
I should have used the term “fair,” in that I openly bring up both overperforming and underperforming specs in the suggestion thread.
I also try my best to get other veterans to run the build and to offer their insight as well.
I can’t be objective, you are right - but I can offer more than just my perspective.
I also like to think that perhaps some weight should be given on a suggestion if the veterans are all echoing the same sentiment about thing X
Well i’m afraid there is no perfect ARPG game on this world, especial try to balance the crazy number of stat game like GD, you cannot make a game that can pleased everybody all around the world and all.
It not make sense to you, it make sense to other, it make sense to you, it not make sense to other
Z already did his best though the crazy number of item and stats tho, if there is something need to be nerf or balance, it will be in next patch
Balance a game is an eternity cycle as it one day will stopped and still unbalance, deal with it lol
Bad thing, why?
Again, this is a bad thing, why?
Because dark one shaman’s are now unsinkable.
Because valdun set was already borderline OP
Then nerf the offhand.
Yes, a skill can’t be buffed because a set is overperforming. It’s not like the set can’t be nerfed and the skill be buffed for less strong builds that use Fire Strike.
Also, how is Valdun borderline op? It seems pretty balanced to me given the times i have checked for Crucible. I don’t get you people. You ask for buffs for stuff that are considered weak, but then they get buffed and you start claiming it’s “borderline op”.
They don’t deal the same damage types. Deathguard and Dunefiend are acid and Morgoneth is vitality/cold.
I will not be stopped that easily 
You shouldn’t too. It’s better if players provides feedback from their experience and it’s up to Z if he wants to implement them in the game.
If something is overnerfed it overtuned, just make a case for it to Z and there’s a chance it will be addressed. It’s so damn simple, there’s no need for passive aggressive responses. I get that memes are funny, but at least accompany it with something valid if you have a balance concern
What’s the dead build threshold hovering at nowadays? 6-7 if we’re looking at shake and bake builds seems to be a vague target on the dev’s part.
For the record doom, I always appreciate/respect your pushback. And I’m not trying to argue with you, so much so as I’m trying to have a discussion here.
Why shouldn’t its overtune-ness be a factor? If it renders all other vitality offhands for the shaman class obsolete as far as efficiency goes, surely it has further widened the chasm between underperforming gear, and OP gear.
But the complaints were before the new/improved valduun was introduced.
And I believe the complaints about ES revolved predominantly around the fact that it is unaffected by conversion mods affecting FS.
But with valduun, and with the innate %WD on ES, you’ll get near perfect conversion without even trying.
Perhaps. But I still think they are plenty of ways to rebalance this item.
There are no viable aether SBoE specs in the end game. Not once have I ever seen a build use transmuted SBoE.
It has nothing to do with a 6 minute clear.
But we aren’t playing under these same older conditions. The game has gotten significantly harder, and the buffs sets like deathguard have received pale in comparison to the power creep.
Especially when these sets are nips deep in one of the most undersupported damage types - acid.
I know for a fact that superfluff has written essays on deathguard, arguing for its buffs; I too have pushed for buffs to acid damage and have explained why I think it’s underperforming, yet too little has been done to address to core issue of the problem:
- CC-res
- OA/DA
- Resists
Sure, there are new rings, and new acid items which will help these sets more, but these aren’t enough.
And yes, you are right to say that not all builds should be performing at the same level in my privileged min/maxer world.
But surely something’s off when a deathguard spec using double rares is performing worse than a storm serpent spec without double rares!
EDIT: Moved the comment here
For the record: Not once did I ever bring up the topic of clear times in my comments.
Nor did I ever use the term “dead build” (except for acid SS)
I am merely pointing out the widening gap between OP specs and underperforming specs.
@adoomgod: I also forgot to mention that I 100% agree with you - 7:30 is a reasonable threshold.
You know nothing, Norzan… 
But honestly guys, the patch bring some good and some bad. Let’s be objective here.
What I like:
- My little flamekeeper got buff.
- Interesting sharpshooter changes.
- the new OP 7 rings.
- The new 2h Morgoneth Mace.
- Good morgoneth boots.
- That new offhand for vitality (this obviously need nerf on wendigo totem side) and pierce.
- The godly great wolf set.
What I hate:
- Stormbox nerf
- Reign of ice and fire nerf (it’s ok though, we have a whole lot of shiny rings to play with)
- AAR not nerf
- Mortar not nerf
- No change to rune
- No change to occultist humongous skill cost
- No worthy change to necromancer
- Conversion from guardian of empyrion’s transmuter hasn’t been changed
What I find confusing:
- Buff to explosive strike: Seriously guys, how many time you want to buff FS? Ranged FS already has a lot of toy to play with, enormous selection of weapon and choices. If the intent is to buff melee FS, then just make necro’s and nightblade’s WPS to have a nicer synergy to it, e.g. become multi-hit. I would rather buff ranged savagery, RF, or cadence instead.
- Blue beronath nerf to uselessness: There hasn’t been many build using it except the autoattacker and ranged FS which need a lot of skill points to work. I guess crate just want us to use kaisan amulet instead.
- Silver sentinel nerf, the shoulder piece is nerfed to uselessness: Though I find this funny instead…
Yes, I did mention this in another thread.