Bat + Ghoul meta

They’re more commonly taken because they’re defensive options, and defensive options are more universal than offensive options, which are usually coded to a certain damage type. Most physical builds won’t take fiend or imp, but will take ghoul. Non-pierce builds get no value from harpy, but do from throne. It’s not rocket science.

Bat + Ghoul is not a problem, the problem is that you have to rely on them.


It’s not just Bat and Ghoul, It’s whole ADCTH mechanics is broken making most of the content trivial because the immortality of a character, worse than that, it’s LAZY broken because acts automaticaly without any pilot skill requirement.

Try to play a Bleeding Build with low/no ADctH.

If you haven’t, you should read my above post with the image in it. But in summary, it’s not adcth which is broken, it’s the fact that it’s the only viable MO for sustain in the late game because of debuffs/CC

@doubler1973: Would be nice if you give these builds a whirl yourself before you claim that they don’t require skill to pilot… As always, I’m willing to share some of my character files with you should you wish to have a go at 'em.

AdctH lazy mechanic and no skills involved? You brought the wrath yourself. :smile:

Calling @Maya to explain what’s lazy play style mean. Certainly not running across mobs and hitting them, avoid CC and Bosses mechanics, pick up correct targets and knowing when to push and when to make side/back step.

Answering the Call to explain what Lazy play style means.


“To faceroll on the Keyboard while half asleep, to see your pets play the game for you and hear the lamentations of your enemies as they die half a screen away”


This sure is a bold claim given that a lot of people claim that melee vitality is bad because even with high ADCTH, you die very fast because they don’t have the other stats to back it up. Same for other builds that die with ADCTH.

If ADCTH was as a broken as you claim, then you really wouldn’t need other stats because you would be immortal. But you’re not, meaning ADCTH is not broken in the slightest and doesn’t make you immortal. Also means you need actual piloting skills to survive, so your other claim is also exaggerated.

To this day I have never seen Tsunami used in multiplayer or a posted build. Did something slip through over the years?

Several builds use tsunami actually. I think lee’s PRM MH used it, I’m using it on my TSS druid as well.

Another Tsunami user: Scheherazade - Pet Deceiver

My Forcewave Warder use it too, binded to Wind Devils. Most of T1 offensive procs have some use. Imp is great on skills with no CD. Flame Torrent on Bligtlord RE etc.

then you meets a 100% lifesteal resistant enemy, or disrupted, or stunned, then dead? Also ghoul is not just good because of the lifesteal, but that important circuit breaker, which these days still doesnt protect u from randomly 100-0ed on a bad roll.

This is why people actually take giant’s blood u know.

Im glad people start realising how deadly skill disruptions are especially EOR or channel builds. I have to use arcane harmony for consistency now since disruption in crucible = dead.

I actually started using arcane harmony on builds some time during my hiatus. Crafting bonus on it is invaluable.

I play melee exclusively (+ Crucible almost exclusively) and devo map is the thing i spend a lot of time on to polish. I don’t use Ghoul on most of builds with low CDR, 30 sec cd is simply unreliable. I rarely use Bat because you need to benefit from it’s flat for it to really shine AND you need a free spamming skill for it which is not smth every build can afford.

These two devos are popular because adcth is one of the defense requirements a WD build must fulfil and it’s very rare. Imagine if you had slow res only on one component and several niche items? Every build would start using Throne, Sailor’s, Dryad and Aeon’s even if they don’t fit the dmg type.

It’s 25s effective downtime tbh. And it really isn’t that unreliable. That’s like once every 2 waves.

It would be very strong (op even) if it was in fact 5 sec immortality. But in my opinion the time of Ghoul immortaity is gone. I’ve been 0.5 sec dunked through Ghoul by 169 more times than i can remember.

By whom? It’s 5s of near immortality.

This of course is irrelevant if you’re CC’d

top left second phase + Annie