With Empyrion, Obelisk of Menhir and Tree of Life: Grimtools, Crucible - 12 minutes
(new build by Firozo) With Ulzuin’s Torch: Grimtools, Crucible - 9:30
As you can see, classic and obvious physical Markovian has different survivablilty and damage output depending on devotion route. With Oleron devotion route it’s damage output is worse than other variations; with Obelisk and Tree of Life its damage output is better than Oleron and survivability is waay better; and with Ulzuin’s Torch it has supreme damage output due to huge OA and Torch’s built-in shotgun.
You can say - that’s just gimmicky conversion build!
John Smith’s Warder using Spear of the Heavens: Grimtools, Crucible - 8.43 and 9.45
Same thing. Even Spear of the Heavens shows same or better performance than Oleron.
How did this happen? How that’s even possible, Oleron is less preferable for Physical builds than SotH, Empyrion and Torch?
I suppose to buff Oleron’s devotion route for better offensive potential.
For example, it’s kinda weird that Wolverine doesn’t have any resistances while Solemn Watcher has cold and pierce; taking Wolverine instead of Solemn Watcher automatically makes the build less defended while having similar cost of devotion nodes. And all pure violet constellations at the bottom of the star map have similar lack of stats for physical characters, especially OA, slow resistance, flat damage.
Edit: and attack speed! Jackal, Dying God and Revenant are in red side of devotion map. There’s no way to get extra attack speed if I go to Oleron.
Hope we’ll discuss what can be done here, because in its current state Oleron is crappy.
I haven’t been playing for a while, but my last pyro iteration was a bleed build. (yes, that’s right!).
Anyways, after much thinking of a decent path for bleed or/and pierce, I concluded that heading to Unknown Soldier/Huntress/Mogdron was more optimal in terms of benefits.
I had previously done a physical iteration and indeed it was better to go towards Emperion and Vire or some other path.
Perhaps the main issue is that Oleron is simply redundant - and more costly for colors. Maybe just replacing it with something else[not bleed/pierce/phsical] in FG has potential.
But…as I say…I haven’t thought closely about this for a few weeks. And I had planned to test Oleron eventually after having looked at the 0-max xp of the current set-up. So I can’t comment on the Oleron proc with any authority.
I wonder if purple color garbage stats is a result of EA phyz/pierce dominance of meta. Check 1.0.0.4 s&b warborn WB - its a invulnerable beast with crits near 450k . After a bunch of nerfs to dmg there is no reason to even considering Olreon - proc is bad. Nodes are mediocre and devotion path is filled with garbage.
Out of all purple devotions only Wolverine, Assassin blade and Crab are worth taking. That’s 12 purple, and we need 8 more to unlock Olreon. Okay, a s`b can take half-decent anvil, but what everyone else? 2h?
I didn’t play much the crucible. But I played my dualwield Physical Witchblade quite a lot. The Avenger builds seems to be about even, time wise.
As for the Markovian builds, I’d say that you can make a devotion using Oleron + Flame Torrent and see how much it cuts off the time (compared to not using flame torrent). Devotion similar to this : https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62a4wjEN
I usually bind Curse of frailty on Flame torrent. That said, I prefer dualwield over the shield version for the physical Witchblade.
My latest setup that i’ve been testing is different from those, less single target then the Oleron route but about the same for Aoe damage. Overall more survivability potential. Like this --> https://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4qWpQ2
*** Don’t judge my gear :p:p:p***
I’m assuming it’s because you tested the shield version. I assure you that Oleron path is singificantly much better when dual wielding… especially for single target.
I mean i don’t mind for a oleron buff, but if you buff it dualwield Witchblade will be beasty :p:D:p:D
As of right now, the Oleron path while dualwielding you can kill pretty much every time Fabius before his first Blade Barrier. While going for the other set-up I posted I just can’t. To be fair I changed both ring in bethween both version but I wanted to get back my lifesteal and resist. But still… I tested while switching one ring in the ‘‘defensive set-up’’ for a Ring of the Matriarch (instead of Signet of the dawned) and I still couldn’t kill Fabius as fast as The Oleron set-up.
That said, you can proc Blind Fury much more efficiently while dualwielding compared to the shield version. Could be why I have a different experience then yours (veretragna).
When I was playing around with GDstashed soldiers I have tested both Warborn/Beronath Tactician and Warborn/Beronath Death Knight. In both setups Light of Empyrion was better, hands down. It’s already much more convinient for Cadence based builds to have a passive T3 proc, and the devotion route is so much juicer. In my final iteration of Death Knight I grabbed first 3 points of Ishtak with godly 30% slow resist/4% total speed nod, that alone made Empyrion route so much better.
Surprised that meteor markovian performance, god damn, I can’t believe when I was making my version of Markovian I didn’t go there.
I think a solution is to just make CoF be able to proc either Assassin’s Mark or Blind Fury. It’s a big problem that phys builds, especially WB and Commando are too clunky for devotion bindings. It won’t solve everything but it’s a nice change. Haven’t really looked into the stats cause I haven’t been in the game for a bit long already.
Anyways. I think if we compare cleartimes we need to compare those from the same players. I mean we all know Fluff has a shit pc. Some players could (and should) be able to clear a lot faster than that, cause I can’t believe spear does better than Oleron.
The problem with Oleron is similar to the problems with Leviathan or Attak Seru. Themselves, they aren’t that bad. It’s the purple path that is garbage.
Oleron is IMO more or less okay. Or it would be if it procced as it should. Outside the fact that the cost of Oleron is prevents you from taking anything else and forces you to take all that purple crap, it’s the proccing method that limits its usefulness.
EDIT: Shit, I just realized that I basically paraphrased the posts above… Yea let’s just say yeah I agree.
However…you might have gotten some good mutators with second build, Oleron hits hard with 2h and with good radius. There is also more flat dmg bonus and %phys on the way.
I am not disputing any needs to buff oleron or not, just that 2h phys oleron hurts nice, consistently and in a wider area and better bonuses. This is not Spelscourge:p. Same of Leviathan WB. It finishes in 8 min consistently and Oleron rapes there (with 2H - second place would be belgo maybe )
As for buffs. Oleron is better than vire imo. The only thing that is kinda redundant on it is pierce res since most phys builds have it overcapped.
Some purple devotions are a bit lame atm though so maybe there it can be improved (…its devotion path for physical builds)
I haven’t tried Leviathan WB, but I did try out Leviathan DK, and Light of Empyrion was outperforming Oleron there as well. Whatever Empyrion’s proc is lacking compared to Oleron it’s making up by better devotion path and better survivability thanks to that. And on most builds T3 devotion procs are just a really small part of their overall damage.
This may be, but seemed to me that Vire isn’t that hard to get (even with Empyrion) for a physical build. It only requires a dozen purple which is not too bad; the same number of blue for entry as required by Empyrion irrc. Plus lots of good blue stuff on the route.
The gap between 12 purple and 20 purple…is a bit of a thinker.
Oleron and Vire shouldn’t be compared. One is offensive, other defensive. Same for procs.
Choosing Vire helps with more flexible choices, like easily getting tree of life (impressive combo) or whatever.
With Oleron, as already mentioned, you are stuck into purple crap all the way. Devotion and proc are so-so. Not bad, but IMO isn’t worth the investments.
Oleron’s requirements just doesn’t meet expected quality.
Sure, but experience is not all. I say - Oleron is way less preferred for pure physical builds.
Oleron may be good if you have enough OA to keep it working constantly, but unfortunately all devotion nodes with huge portions of OA (Chariot, Viper, Hawk) are not in violet segment of devotion map. Some builds have naturally high OA to keep Oleron working constantly, I don’t think bad about them.
Sry mate but empyr will never hit as hard as Oleron with 2h and never as consistently (unless they change it).
Whoever has their mind set on certain devotions won’t budge, in general.
Also i don’t know what your friend Smith did, but he lost some things he should’t have.
Btw i recommend Boneshatter treads for more slow res in general and more OA for more upheval procs and more Olreon procs:p
Edit: As for vire vs oleron. Oleron has more IT if you divide per second and a source of flat IT. Tankyness is 115 extra armor and some shield sustain.
Not only me, man.
My builds are only Markovian ones (except new build by Firozo), other people see Oleron’s imperfection too.
My goal is to deliver an alternative point of view to Crate. You can refer to your own preference and no one thinks wrong about this, but the facts should be analyzed.
Edit: I have to repeat it once again. Crate, how is it possible that 3rd party constellations perform better than Oleron on pure Physical builds?
Fluff is a stubborn old praetorian, I will give him that
Again, my experience with Soldiers is probably quite limited, but I tested Warborn/Beronath Tactician, Warborn/Beronath Death Knight, Leviathan Death Knight, and in each setup Empyrion performed better. I tested it in Crucible 150-170 ofcourse, and while clearing times were similiar (Empyrion was a tiny bit faster sometimes), setups with Oleron were less fluid and more glassy.
And not taking Ghould on a melee build is a luxury that I will never be able to afford.
