What is “mantinel”?
I actually like the monster level scaling. Currently, it is limited by area to how high a level the monsters are able to get.
Yes, mantinels = areas set to min/max level scaling for monsters. I respect your opinion. I do not like it at all. Perhaps for 4rd and ultimate difficulty, after beating whole game 3 times it is good idea, u can than endlessly continue. Or not even another difficulty, only have some option continue this way, if you want. Than I have nothing against monsters scaling with you. I just do not enjoy leveling with monster level scaling on.
Would you mind telling us why instead of just saying over and over again that you don’t like it, but never really giving us the reason(s) that is?
I have to say I disagree, completely. Monster scaling is a great feature cause it keeps areas interesting for a longer period of time.
Yes, sure. I did in very first comment in section feedback to alpha. U can search it, by my nickname. I think, this is something, which was discussed deeply in several long topics and we does not need to put all pros and negatives again, they are well known. Looks like we are divided between 50% of users likes it, and rest do not. I will put only one main negative and that is, bosses on lower levels are leveling with you and it is not fun to grind a bit and beat that Boss again and again. Boss is leveling with you and you are not feeling your progress. In aplha its fine, u can play longer… but if it is in final game, I suggest, I will loose interest nad will not play it.
more discussion about it here:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7331&page=10
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3237&page=2
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7589&page=2
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8726&page=3
looks like only minority of players like monster level scaling here and not 50%.
I think, that implementing monster scaling and removing feeling of your progression every level over monsters in your mainly whole gameplay duration till finshing all difficulties…is not worth to put some main advantage of this system and let you grind just some levels more at the game end is not completely worth. Level scaling with min-max for area is just blind end and not the right path for this game. Just my idea. I already put some ideas, how to implement it, just search in my posts.
I can agree wit the monster scaling . It takes me out of my immersion of becoming a total badass. I can agree it would be awesome in last difficulty as to extend the game and grinding of loot.
TQ does have monster level scaling. I think we may scale it back to occur within narrower margins after alpha. That may give you more of the feel that you’re looking for.
I think current scaling is just fine.
NOOOOO!!!
am i the only one who loved how the scaling was when alpha was first released?! i farmed the ancient shambler in the flooded passage for gear/exp all the way to 25 on my first character after his first full clear of the alpha content. i would probably still play the alpha as opposed to just checking in on the forums for the next update if that were still an option.
But once there is more content, wouldn’t you keep progressing rather than hanging out in Act1 farming for 10 levels?
I the first difficulty, yes, you’re probably right. The farming, however, is more for the gear than the levels. In the latter two difficulties i’d hope they are hard enough to require some gear farming at random times to continue progressing. That’s part of what makes these types of games so much fun!
In summary, here’s a link to an old post…
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=98223#post98223
I’m new here, but yeah, seems to be a great update. LOL!
an option to farm in whatever map you like with mobs scaling at your lvl it would be great! after all there isnt any downside about it…
As long as it’s an option - something you can deselect if you don’t want it - it’s a good idea.
The problem now is that the game is generally too hard at entry level, and there are far too few respawn spots. When the monsters levels scale with your level as well, and good drops are few, you risk making the game nearly impossible to progress, because there’s just nowhere you can run back to to level up for the next part. Where ever you go, it is just as hard as where you need to go to progress. If that’s the way you want to go, the game won’t live long, is my prediction.
The previous time I loaded up the game, I played for less than 10 minutes. I got killed by trash mobs, and had to run for at least a minute every time to get back to where I was, only to get killed by more trash. I didn’t get a single drop of anything remotely useful, that could help me progress any easier. When you spend more time running back to your gravestone than you do killing monsters, you can expect people to quit fast…
In other words; monster level scaling is a bad idea as a core mechanic in the game, but livable as long as it is an option that can be turned off. At times you simply NEED places you can run back to where killing is easier, so that you can level up a bit for the next challenge.
I do not know what game you are playing but the beginning is not as challenging as you state it is. A lot had to do with a players ability to play the game and identify skills that will be pertinent to survive and eliminate mobs faster, and GEAR. The areas leveling with your character allow people to still get something out of searching an area 100% of coming back to it after progressing through 2 or three gates and still enjoy a challenge and gain xp. It also broadens the speed in which a payer can complete the game. If one wants to power through areas they can do so without reaching a huge brick wall. Or if one wants to take their time and come back to an area after progressing through it. then so be it. To state that its hard and you die all the time is ludacris… I don’t know of anyone that has had that problem. pick up white stuff in the beginning I guess cause if your struggling that bad, something is wrong.
When did you first try playing the game though? If it was early on just after the alpha was released then things have changed since then. I eventually deleted my first toon (Soldier) because he simply died on me too much once I reached Burrwitch Village. But the class has been improved with subsequent patches and should stand up better than he did before.
Also it does take a while to learn how to play the game. I’ve been playing TQ for years, but it took me a while to realise this game needs much more kiting than TQ does, even at the early levels. You have to expect to run away and recover and then go in again. If you’re limited to white items because nothing else is available from drops/shop then it’s even more vital.
Like everything else practice makes it easier as you come to understand how the game plays. I find that now up to around level 7/8 is pretty easy, but then jumps up in difficulty after that. But even so, tackling the Reanimator and Viloth is hard; my feeling is they are a bit too hard for such early levels and could do with toning down a little.
I believe the devs want a game to attract hardcore RPG players and that’s fine, but there is also a wider base of players who aren’t or don’t consider themselves hardcore who also want to play this great game. They may be put off if the early levels are too difficult; a little adjustment would not skew things too far off course and still allow things to be more difficult once you’ve gained a few levels. And as there is a hardcore mode planned anyway, making the early bosses too hard will simply put ordinary players off before they can get into the game properly.
For myself, I would still like to see some adjustments made to the buy/sell prices. I know they’re outrageous in all games, but when a white item sells for 28 iron and an exact same item is for sale at 300+ it’s just ridiculous, especially as unlike in TQ you don’t have any starting money at all. It’s even worse for yellows and greens. It’s not helped by the fact that most monsters/caches don’t drop loot either. It’s a real struggle to even find white items to use sometimes.
I find plenty of gear and components…I actually often find that caches drop more green items than bosses! I also think that difficulty is just fine. Grim Dawn is an awesome game, better than d2/d3 and better than any clone out there. And I can’t believe this is only an alpha! Shiny future once all bugs are fixed and content developed…great gaming ahead 
Just wondering about a new patch if theres going to be one in the next month or so ?.
I’m having trouble understanding how the early game is presenting such a challenge. Are you experienced with other ARPGs? I wanted to make sure the first few areas weren’t overly difficult for new players so I tested difficulty by having my wife play through it. She isn’t a gamer and hasn’t played video games since her childhood on Nintendo. She was able to make it to level 8 with only 2 deaths, partially because she didn’t know basics like how to drink health potions, equip items or use skills initially (and totally ignores the tutorial). Maybe my wife has latent gamer talent or something.
I don’t mean to dismiss your feedback, I’m just trying to understand it. It would help to know what killed you, where you were at the time and what level. Whether you had selected and were using skills, what class you were, etc.
In other words; monster level scaling is a bad idea as a core mechanic in the game, but livable as long as it is an option that can be turned off. At times you simply NEED places you can run back to where killing is easier, so that you can level up a bit for the next challenge.
I think enemy scaling is a valuable and necessary mechanic to make the game somewhat adaptable to the different paces at which people will progress through it. I don’t know of any ARPG that doesn’t have some form of enemy scaling. In TQ it was too narrow and I felt like I constantly had to run past enemies to get ahead into areas with appropriately leveled enemies. If you stayed in an area to fully explore it and venture through side dungeons, you inevitably ended up ahead of the level curve. I guess some people like to do this and feel powerful trashing under-leveled enemies but I prefer to have a challenge. I think ideally we should be able to provide both experiences but TQ was skewed too much toward over-leveling such that it tended to happen even when you were being more aggressive about moving forward and not clearing out areas. In GD we may currently be too much to the other extreme where enemies continue to scale for too long in each area - although I think this is currently good while we are in alpha.
One issue though is the somewhat open-world direction we’re trying to go in where we don’t always know when a player will be in a particular area. Act 1 has broad gameplay areas with several optional dungeons and we’re seeing people progress at very different rates. Yet, it is still somewhat linear in terms of quest progression. If we open this up more in Act 2, as we plan to, it will mean an even greater range of what level the average player could be in a given area. Fortunately, at higher level, the pace of leveling slows, so the ranges won’t need to be quite as wide as they do at lower levels.
Levels are meant to scale more up than down. Players who replay areas and fully explore will tend to experience less difficulty as they’ll generally be above the minimum when they enter new areas, at least in normal difficulty. If you are aggressively moving forward and not exploring / clearing much, then you’ll get increasingly into areas above your level and may eventually need to farm but we don’t think farming should be necessary for most players in normal difficulty. The need to replay areas and farm will become more pronounced in higher difficulties where the enemy minimums will escalate more rapidly.