Build Diversity...

[Nandi]

i highly disagree about this post. and i also deeply laugh about wording ‘builder’

dont get me wrong guys but you guys seriously think building s&b warlord around octavious, pierce belgothian X class, acid w/e melee nblade or fire mortar trap i posted is a real thing? mortar trap guy took me maybe less than 2 hours to settle, 1 hours to tweak, 3-5 tries to make video.

we/you are not breaking game by making some powerfull build, you are already cooking your meal with what ‘crate gives you’… you know that right ?
optimizing already MADE SETs here or there, some devotions tricks doesnt make you wizard in this game, and most importantly doesnt make you a ‘builder’ or whatever.

you seriously think, crate was not aware of retal builds gonna be broken ? they even legit said that ‘they already knew it was gonna be so powerfull’ on twitch before they made phys retal changes on game.
i am %100 sure they already knew, they just change all ‘pierce retal’ to phys retal and wanted to see whats gonna happen to balance it. and most funny part, player base who wants retal builds to be more viable and active, started to cry after new patch balance changes. human being greedy shouldnt surprise me anymore i guess.
same goes for N&O, i bet %95 of dw melee player base knew nex and ortus was gonna be super strong.
same goes for dying god.

i dont quite understand most of the logic behind ‘my build got nerfed’ babyrage
you guys seriously play only 1 build in this game? post your build, show us something cool and move on next build… weird man weird
and you guys seriously think writing down a 1 guide make you owner of a simple build ? congratz you make a demonslayer pb build, i bet no1 earth would ever think that…

i also highly disagree about build diversity is non exist in GD. this game offers a lot than many people think in every aspects.
if you set crucible 150 170 6 7 min, sr 75 as your benchmark its your problem, tons of casual players and weird builds can do crucible 150 170 and reach sr 50. and current SR state is complete garbage and doesnt suit to gd anyway.

my best wishes with crate balance team right now, cause imo its so hard to work with some part of community like this.
if you love/like this game try to help crate balance the game, if you see some builds extremely outperforms items and devotions write down your game experience and show something. i find this attitude so childish that ‘my build gonna nerf soon, i shouldnt post it bla bla’… this is plain stupid

We are builders cuase we can show the people, what can they do with some of the stuffs. Every game u use the stuff that the game offers…

I didn’t cry about anything. I just started cause everybody posted some times the same concept…

With the others i agreed.

[x1x1x1x2]

I don’t play the soldier enough to comment, but there was something inherently OP about how the soldier synergized with the OK.

Play the OK with most other classes, and it’s not too OP.

Play the soldier with most other classes, and it’s also not too OP.

But put the 2 together…

It’s the binder problem again. Except warlord is a lot more synergistic than binder ever was.

Soldier has a shitton of stats and defense. Overguard for shields, decorated soldier, scars of battle, shield training etc. Soldier is a complete defensive package but it doesn’t have much damage unless you go physical, and even if you go phys there was no other class that supports physical aside from the occassional RR on occultist/necro.

Now oathkeeper enters the scene and it’s got everything soldier lacked. Offensive shield skills, stackable RR, actually good WPS, strong skills with aegis (member soldier’s strongest shield skill is cadence which isn’t too impressive given shield builds lack attack speed) and warlord becomes the complete package.

[Ymiraku]

There are plenty of builds that Crate wouldn’t have forseen, it’s not like they sat there and theorycrafted every single build everyone has even came up with and were like ‘haha these players will think they are special when they make this build’. Alot of these gaming companies actually leave most of the game testing to the players, thats why they create patches and overhauls.

Of course cookie cutter specs like warlord were intended to be overpowered, but there are a plethora of other oathbreaker combos which are quirky and are absolute monsters.

I think if someone comes up with a cool build, why shouldn’t they feel some self satisfaction?

[sir_spanksalot]

There are plenty of builds that Crate wouldn’t have forseen, it’s not like they sat there and theorycrafted every single build everyone has even came up with and were like ‘haha these players will think they are special when they make this build’. Alot of these gaming companies actually leave most of the game testing to the players, thats why they create patches and overhauls.

Of course cookie cutter specs like warlord were intended to be overpowered, but there are a plethora of other oathbreaker combos which are quirky and are absolute monsters.

I think if someone comes up with a cool build, why shouldn’t they feel some self satisfaction?

+1 to this - making the weird and wonderful work instills in me a weirdly wonderful sense of achievement.

[malawiglenn]

GD was better before Crucible and SR

endgame always make people min/max and exploit things

[ya1]

There are plenty of builds that Crate wouldn’t have forseen, it’s not like they sat there and theorycrafted every single build ev

Some of the best builders are Praetorians. They do sit there and theorycraft every single build. Which is why I don’t entirely get it why this warlord situation was allowed to emerge in the first place.

[Valinov]

Some of the best builders are Praetorians. They do sit there and theorycraft every single build. Which is why I don’t entirely get it why this warlord situation was allowed to emerge in the first place.

Theory crafted something around 300 builds over testing. (that I currently have bookmarked links for) I’m also sure that there were more that I only messaged/talked about in discord which links disappeared. I also purged one folder of build links about 2 months ago. The number of builds I have tested in game since late summer last year is probably somewhere in the ballpark of 100. Of those ~100, I probably fulled polished/min-maxed about 10-15. Ofc I used gd stash or that type of testing wouldnt be possible. My game time is generally limited to maybe a hour or two on work days(work = 50-70hours/week), and maybe 5-6 hours on my one or two days off a week (well if I’m lucky and don’t have other obligations)

Warlords definitely were some of the builds tested. I didnt find them to be overly interesting, thus I didnt spend much time with them. The main build I used was a Markovian warlord. It was nothing spectacular, but functioned very well as a group tank. I did report concerns about physical retal (octavious was something that had been mentioned before by others) , but I would assume since feedback on that particular subject was as close as it was to launch that there wasnt time to properly get the full picture of just how strong it was. Then come up with and test potential nerfs.

TLDR
Everyone is human and there are only so many hours in the day. This game has more build diversity than pretty much any other arpg on the market.

[Nandi]

GD was better before Crucible and SR

endgame always make people min/max and exploit things

True, i posted so much build that worked.

Some of the best builders are Praetorians. They do sit there and theorycraft every single build.

Technically i am praetorians, i started in the original GD era. I didn’t posted that too much, to get the title.

[x1x1x1x2]

Technically i am praetorians, i started in the original GD era. I didn’t posted that too much, to get the title.

What? Praetorians are beta testers who get beta versions of patches in advance. Some praets don’t post a lot but they got the title

Some of the best builders are Praetorians. They do sit there and theorycraft every single build. Which is why I don’t entirely get it why this warlord situation was allowed to emerge in the first place.

It could be a business decision, or there’s also someone at crate who’s a huge fan of warlord.

[el_critico]

What? Praetorians are beta testers who get beta versions of patches in advance. Some praets don’t post a lot but they got the title

It could be a business decision, or there’s also someone at crate who’s a huge fan of warlord.

no offense to praetorians but only a few of them are good in the game. Some of then are just as bad if not worst than me in representing the lower echelons of talent but somehow these dudes possess some kind of magic that only devs know.

Zantai himself is a massive warlord nerd as shown in the dev streams he always flaunted warlords. If he had embraced the paladin light earlier all of this imbalance would have not occured :eek:

[x1x1x1x2]

no offense to praetorians but only a few of them are good in the game. Some of then are just as bad if not worst than me in representing the lower echelons of talent but somehow these dudes possess some kind of magic that only devs know.

Ummmmm. You do know that there were openings for praet applications before FG testing began, right? And the requirement was like good forum standing or something. It wasn’t juat about good players. It was about those who were just interested to be praets. And some were those who like finding bugs (there’s always a lot of them on beta versions).

[Lony97]

GD was better before Crucible and SR

endgame always make people min/max and exploit things

But a ARPG with no endgame is nosense also…

I do agree with trying to balance thing to make a lot of thing viable to play but why this habit from DEV and even people wanting to tune thing down and almost never raise shit up ?

[medea_fleecestealer]

True, i posted so much build that worked.

Technically i am praetorians, i started in the original GD era. I didn’t posted that too much, to get the title.

When you started has no bearing on being asked to become a playtester. Nor is it a question of posting a lot.

no offense to praetorians but only a few of them are good in the game. Some of then are just as bad if not worst than me in representing the lower echelons of talent but somehow these dudes possess some kind of magic that only devs know.

Zantai himself is a massive warlord nerd as shown in the dev streams he always flaunted warlords. If he had embraced the paladin light earlier all of this imbalance would have not occured :eek:

Which is why you’ll also find playtesters like me who are forever playing in Normal giving our feedback as well. Though I plan out where I want my builds to go I don’t worry about gear and just use what I find along the way. Pretty much like most other players of the game do when you think about it. Most players only play the game through to the end of Normal and never get into the higher difficulties or all the mini-maxing stuff so many people seem to be fond of.

[allufewi]

This community, despite the games high complexity, has a talent in quickly finding and “abusing” the most powerful builds. And the most powerful builds attract Z like dung attracts flies. Thats natural.

And after a few tears have been shed, the minmaxers will go on their hunt for the most powerful character again. Every balance-patch, every addition of content, sets the cycle in motion again. Thats why games like this stay alive in the first place. As long as the devs dont give up on their game, it never ends.

There is no one that is “guilty” of anything. Minmaxers do what minmaxers have to and devs do what devs have to do - act as great equalizers in the grand theatre of builds. As long as the latter dont go full retard (and I did not see that happening yet) theres no real destruction of diversity imho. That said, I too think WL was a bit… much. Btw, pets next please.

[el_critico]

When you started has no bearing on being asked to become a playtester. Nor is it a question of posting a lot.

Which is why you’ll also find playtesters like me who are forever playing in Normal giving our feedback as well. Though I plan out where I want my builds to go I don’t worry about gear and just use what I find along the way. Pretty much like most other players of the game do when you think about it. Most players only play the game through to the end of Normal and never get into the higher difficulties or all the mini-maxing stuff so many people seem to be fond of.

you are not that bad medea in fact without you the game might have escalated to uber difficult levels, though I like decent challenge but I just realized and I am glad that Crate chose to do that way otherwise I cant imagine what balance would have been like if they had chosen to employ like only 100 Superfluffs or Valinovs for instance to tinker into the game’s innards:eek:

[Lony97]

This community, despite the games high complexity, has a talent in quickly finding and “abusing” the most powerful builds. And the most powerful builds attract Z like dung attracts flies. Thats natural.

And after a few tears have been shed, the minmaxers will go on their hunt for the most powerful character again. Every balance-patch, every addition of content, sets the cycle in motion again. Thats why games like this stay alive in the first place. As long as the devs dont give up on their game, it never ends.

There is no one that is “guilty” of anything. Minmaxers do what minmaxers have to and devs do what devs have to do - act as great equalizers in the grand theatre of builds. As long as the latter dont go full retard (and I did not see that happening yet) theres no real destruction of diversity imho. That said, I too think WL was a bit… much. Btw, pets next please.

Quite poetic

[Nandi]

When you started has no bearing on being asked to become a playtester. Nor is it a question of posting a lot.

Oh i didn’t know that. I thought like elders or something.

Anyway i am now advocate. How this ranking works?

[medea_fleecestealer]

Oh i didn’t know that. I thought like elders or something.

Anyway i am now advocate. How this ranking works?

Crate decided on the title of Praetorian for people they invited to become playtesters long ago. And yes, it used to be an invite, that’s how I became one. But the last couple of times Zantai has posted on the forum inviting players to apply for the position instead. You can see the threads here:

http://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70728&highlight=playtesters

https://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80419&highlight=playtesters

As for the ranking see this:

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52350&highlight=forum+ranks

[medea_fleecestealer]

you are not that bad medea in fact without you the game might have escalated to uber difficult levels, though I like decent challenge but I just realized and I am glad that Crate chose to do that way otherwise I cant imagine what balance would have been like if they had chosen to employ like only 100 Superfluffs or Valinovs for instance to tinker into the game’s innards:eek:

Crate aim for a wide range of playstyles and expertise (or lack of it in my case ) when it comes to selecting playtesters. So you’ll find people who can mini-max, play Crucible, multiplayer, petmancer, etc, in the ranks.

[sir_spanksalot]

I knoooooow. I missed my chance to apply when I went on my untimely hiatus T_T