I agree with all the replies. But that’s also the reason why after some time, some people realize there is not much left to do in the game. Competitiveness and achievement are a part of the definition of the word game. There is a point where the game environment itself stops being competitive itself, and players look to the community to find new dimension of competitiveness.
Uh, we did make up our minds long ago, and then the community asked us to leave the exploit alone, so we did.
Yeah, um, that’s kind of the point. Nobody was supposed to get that far, but the camera exploit allows it to happen.
It’s not a coincidence that loot stopped scaling past Shard 83.
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Seriously before banana and plasmo appeared I thought you were the best cruci runner along with john smith.
@Zantai, correct me if I’m wrong but the way I see it Crate is very pragmatic in terms of decision making that once they saw the patterns in sales dropping, they decided to support GD less (i.e. no more expansions) and start developing the new game instead. I think Crate has already achieved the goal of having loyal (can’t find the right word) fans of GD that if ever GD2 comes, we’ll be there waiting for it.
We could probably realistically make a reasonable profit on a third expansion, but felt the game was best served by stopping at two, both for the sake of not bloating GD to unreasonable levels and for the team to get a break.
We want to make products we are proud of, not churn stuff out cause it means more money.
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Make up your mind not about the camera exploit but about the reason why it is necessary: the super binary character of SR runs. Either manage aggro and win or fail to do so and lose. This single dimension of SR overshadows everything else: building, piloting, everything. The difference between dealing with one boss and four is too huge to be governed by RNG.
Uh, the difference is we never intended for you to pull one boss at a time, but to deal with all of them at once, which becomes unrealistic much sooner than what players are pushing now with the exploit. I’m not sure how to make this any more clear.
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The competitive community could lower the impact of RNG in Crucible or SR by doing multiple runs and taking averages.
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Well, it seems like most of people who play legit are using this exploit, cause it lowers build requirements and allow you to pass deeper shards with more, let’s say, available gear. so only a truly “”“moral”"" person would lower their farm potential and increase time to get end game gear by refusing to use the exploit. moreover, SR is very RNG-based and at the same time very repetative, so simply using exploit to decrease the time you have to spend on the thing you don’t really enjoy sounds kind-a reasonable
(actually, i was that “”“moral”"" guy who refused to use exploited, but that was after i discovered wonderful crafting aspect of GDStash, so i’d been doing it “the proper way” just to show that things that i’d made don’t need any glitches to be good, lol.)
Camera exploit shouldn’t be deleted, it makes sr more fun, less rng, faster. It’s either to possible to play without but player must die on opposite side of the room, it reposition bosses from the start and they will not gangbang. However it can makes it much longer, sometimes multiple deaths are necessary so room will take 30 min instead of 10.
Deleting whole agro abuse mechanic is not good either, it kills variety. I can do 80-90 without it with some builds, over 100 with warlord but some builds can go deep just fighting 1vs1 with proper piloting.
Monsters luring exists in many many games, from some MMOs to TQ to soulslikes, it’s not bad, it’s part of strategy.
With agro abuse delete we can as well delete death waystones.
Not to mention I’ve said repeatedly that difficulty scales rapidly after SR60 and it turns into an RNG fest we do not intend to balance for, but that’s fallen on deaf ears.
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FINALLY A THREAD TO FLEX MY NO CAMERA ABUSE ALLOWED SR75-76 TESTING EBUSHIDO!
(which means, yes, even complete builds sometimes get their shit pushed in and fail)
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I don’t know… I can easily do SR75 with all bosses at once, on normal difficulty…
Wait, it this not how you play SR? 
that’s absolutely clear, but why not to just intend SR to be 1 on 1 encounters?
i agree with Alkamos, deep SR can be fun when you’re playing it like dark souls. but that wasn’t the way it was designed. why not to follow the trend that’ve been installed in community?
like, making small arena less small, so you don’t have to be dancing around 2x5 meters area, to not unintentionally agro additional boss.
UPD: i’ve just remembered about chtonic arena which impossible to fight 1 on 1 even with agroabuse.
Because the community asked for something new? And it’s clearly found its audience. Obviously it’s not to everybody’s liking, but nothing ever is.
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I don’t. Yeah I walk inches to be close one boss I choosed to be first without any camera movement if they stay in their positions at the beginning. Then I start that side first but even then two or more of them can strike at the same time. Mostly the farest one stays in his positions and left for the last. If one of them jump right from the beginning, I say what the hell and plan something else while dealing the first comers.
And I don’t see myself or the unexploited situation about morality. It’s basically allows you to overperform than you should be. Because, well the game itself is RNG. You may have to deal boss combination at the same time which is also rng and whether your build can survive of that is tested by these rng’s. But when you exploit such feature, it allows you to become less defensive while building; since you trust yourself to deal with them 1v1. And it’s not even piloting. Piloting means using buffs skills etc with perfect timing, keeping aware of your cooldowns and knowing when to use your active skills/buffs/procs. And ofc knowing all the enemies’ dangerous sides and being able to avoid or overcome them.
And I also like to add this; some people like me can’t play Crucible competetively because we have no good computers to be in fully control of the character while all the sh*t is happening. I play particles and lightning low, most of the time I don’t see what is exactly happening and use my autopiloting(like seeing the null from an arcane enemy, I just can’t avoid them among packs because I don’t really see it coming), in every wave I start with low fps and when things become really crowded my game crashes time to time. Though I mostly fixed the crashing issue, it’s still not comfortable for me to play crucible which I really liked the concept with my first character.
In SR things are more stable than crucible so I mostly play SR. And since there are no buffs and banners in SR, it forces you to make a more balanced build to survive in high shards. So I don’t believe is that SR is more rng oriented than Crucible, it all just the same.
And crucible allows you to have some low stats which can be compensated with buffs and banners. Yeah changing mutators in every 10 wave is kinda annoying but I already suggested that making more SR boss rooms and not making any of them occur in a row makes things even and also make SR more competitive.
well, it’s not really different from camera abuse, hence SR bosses were intended to be fought simultaneously.
not sure about that, i haven’t found any stat that is not really needed in CR, but is completely mandatory in SR75-76.
if we are talking about glasscannons, then guess what, some of them are more than capable of clearing SR75-76, you need to be somewhat experienced in SR though, but it’s certainly possible.
that’s a good point, i forgot how poorly optimised CR is.
Please do not flick the switch that disables camera rotation. Some of us actually use it to enjoy experiencing the MC atmosphere by being able to look at environments from different angles, and gameplay in general i find is improved.
I dont know maybe im alone, but i rotate the camera constantly to get a better view of the battlefield, not to exploit, although it conveniently has that benefit.
This is a feature that, when I switch to other ARPGs, doesnt exist. It is something that sets Grim Dawn above the competition. Thats my opinion. Dont know if anyone else agrees or what, but there is no one speaking up about this factor of camera rotation and id be kicking myself if i said nothing, and camera rotation was removed from the game as a result of this discussion.
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Yeah but it’s not a certain science, it is still based on luck or rng. There is no certainty of pulling only one and mostly two of them sees you at the same time. For ex; if there is Slatsharr in the room I tend to move away from it while pulling because if more than one strikes I don’t want to deal it’s fumble with a melee build. But guess what if the other side bosses are Grava and Valdaran, I would prefer Slatsharr and X againts them since while avoiding null and probably teleported by Val, I will have to deal with 4 of them. It more a strategy than exploitation, and it doesn’t always works so I see it as rng.
DA? OA? You can depending on which the build lacks you choose your banner. A build in SR 75+ need other defensive mechanisms to survive with 2700 DA but with banners you can compensate atleast one so while building; you don’t need to sacrifice damage for stats. I agree that most of the buffs are really necessary to deal all wave at the same time but extra resistances also allows you to not sacrificing something else to reasonably overcap some resist of yours. I’m aware that any good pilot can do high SR with a glasscannon build but that glasscannon can survive more than it should be because of those buffs and banners so in Crucible it’s less challenging to playing with it than playing with it in SR. So Crucible players have the luxury of ignoring some stats while building.
I admire most of you guys piloting, it’s about focusing, reflexes and game knowledge and there are instances that these skills aren’t enough with such build. That’s is the difference between using camera abuse and not using it. So it basically allows your build to overperform. And without it, most of the fast Crucible runner glasscannons can’t do consistent SR. And with players with bad piloting, these build should be frustrating because they can’t perform as you do even with exact same setup.
But I’m aware SR and Crucible are different concepts and should have different aspects to function properly as their purpose allows. I don’t want to compare builds as SR build or CR build either so every player should adjust their build accordingly what they want from the game. You guys like crucible but it’s not everything.
It’s the necessity of the game to reach some secret/hidden things so I don’t think you should worry about that.
i have actually meant completing it w/o camera abuse.
Mm, no. DA is one of the least important stat for SR, it actually matters a bit more in CR, cause there’re a lot of damage sources and a lot of DA shreds. It’s not entierly useless, melee tend to need it more than casters do, but it’s necessity is greatly exaggerated on forums.
As for OA - i’d been playing with ~2600 OA on my acid dervish, and it was fine for beating SR90 and CR.
Completing and consistent farming aren’t the same thing but okay, some build surely can do that with good piloting.
Nope, it depends on the build. Not every build has high life, damage absorption, good damage reduction or high OA shred. After SR 75 nemesis’ can crit you if you have lower DA than 2800 even without DA shred.
That’s an exceptional build with lot’s of aspects along with high DoT. That builds only lacks some CC resists and OA and Ascension provides them for the time being. I probably can’t accomplish those with that so part of the success is your piloting. Not every class combo do that, especially with melee build.
Anyway, no need to hijack the thread. My point was camera abuse and Crucible buffs/banners allows builders to be more aggressive, and without the exploitation SR requires more balanced builds in general, just that.