But nerfs got basically endgame builds that were made for crucible/deep shards
I have noticed the decrease of end game content discussion in the forum and not many players are posting/commenting builds. Considering the long time since releasing the game, even FG expansion it’s normal. Game cycle can’t last indefinitely, especially single player oriented game.
But of course I’m sad, when players I know and like are no longer active in the community.
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i was actually trying to prove exactly the opposite. most people play MC and rogue-likes.
anyways, i can’t continue this discussion till night, so see you all after 6 hours.
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So what’s the problem? As Zantai said they don’t balance the game around Crucible/SR runs, but by looking at the overall picture. Players will always come and go with games, it’s just the way it is. Some people will stay around forever, but most won’t. Yes, things will get quieter on the forum, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Once Crate stop updating the game then the modders will go full steam and players will be able to enjoy the fruits of their work even more than they do now. And we’ll probably see more builds for mods as they won’t keep getting broken by updates to the game.
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Wait, a forum drama not started by me? How dare you!
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Yeah I don’t know about that one, bud.
There is a deep, tremendous irony in this conversation. For so very long, Crucible was not a consideration for game balance and the then-fledgling group of Crucible mains wanted otherwise.
Well, congrats, you got what you wanted. Crucible is now a factor when considering the whole scope of the game and Crate listens to your feedback. There is no pretending that a fast build isn’t bound to be nerfed, nor that a slow build is unlikely to be buffed. However, because players flock to what’s fast, the nerfs seem to hit harder and more frequently than the buffs when in reality the opposite is true. Losing a few seconds from a nerf is a small change to the minutes gained by weaker builds in buffs.
I have never wanted Crucible to be a consideration for game balance and still don’t for this very reason. I believe it is impossible to make anyone happy when it is a factor. Crucible breeds competition, and competition seeks out every edge possible, imbalances included. TL;DR, Crucible is a fantastic magnifying glass for certain issues in the game that occur in certain scenarios (e.g., the strength and dangerousness of AoE from players and enemies, respectively).
At the end of the day, my hot take is that the game would be in a far better spot if Crucible were ignored for balance, or if it had never existed to begin with. (Curse you, Kickstarter goals!)
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not sure why that is a ‘sadly’. I find endgame utterly uninteresting in general. To me it started being a thing when MMOs ran out of content and needed players to keep paying their monthly fees. I understand why they needed grind to keep people playing, I am not at all sure why I should find it enjoyable…
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Using those achievement stats to prove something doesn’t mean much because a lot of people buy games and either don’t even play them or only try them for less than an hour.
It’s not that “97% of all players don’t get far in SR” as you seem to imply in images like the above.
Of the players that do stick around to play, naturally a good amount of them get to level 100 and play endgame content, which is a far bigger portion than the implied “only 3%.”
What this picture ignores is that there are two barriers to even getting this achievement: First, buying Ashes of Malmouth. Second, buying Forgotten Gods.
Of all the players that play GD, far from 100% of them will have done both of the above, yet Steam doesn’t care. Achievement ratings are based on the full population of players that have the base game in their library.
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Only 60% of the owners of the game have the lv10 achievement, which would take something like 30min for a new player so I can safely assume 40% of the owners don’t even play the game thus don’t count.
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Another fair point to make as well is that there are some die hard fans who play the game and still dont really care about Crucible or SR. The majority of my time is spent experimenting with memey jank builds, as you know, and putting hours into HC Classless roleplay. The base game is honestly so big and theres so much to do, you can get lost in it.
Like you, I also feel the steam achievements are a poor metric by which to judge playerbase and if the game is dead or not. Unless the discussion is strictly about Crucible and SR, which seems to me unfair because one cant say the game is dead and not discuss the MC at all… its such a huge part of the journey.
EDIT: Also, the game cant technically ever die like others have mentioned since its SP first and foremost, and I feel the community will be around for a while regardless as well. I know I will, this game is a classic.
Oh yeah, also, the game can be played without internet access, so there are some players (myself included) who dont have their achievements taken into account since I havent been online to update them since the PvP tournaments over the summer. That data wont be taken into account if I cant connect to the internet to transmit it.
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No one said that the game is dying and the topic is not about it
its literally in the OP. It seems to be the focus of the dicussion… misleading title.
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While it is sad that builders leave the game, part of the “problem” is the gap between posted builds performance and their usage by the playerbase.
First, I don’t want to appear ungrateful for the sheer dedication of builders that put guides out there for all the community to enjoy. Their work is incredible, and there is a lot to learn from them.
But most people just don’t play at that level. SR 75? Pfffff, I’ve 900 hours and I just reached SR 60 this week. Of course this is my anecdotal experience, and people can say “900 hours, that’s all?” but it is a lot of time for me.
My point is, I’m glad there are super powerful builds out there, it’s very interesting if only to understand how to tinker your own personal build. And in that sense, builders leaving doesn’t mean the game is dead, it just means it’s less competitive. It is a loss, no doubt, it’s always sad to see someone leave, but people gotta do what they enjoy first, because it’s a game.
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Probably because OP didn’t write that title, one of the forum mods did. This thread is split from a build thread.
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Oh I must have missed that part. My apologies. Still, the discussion seems to be focused around the game and community withering away.
The important thing that how many people are there in the 1,5 percent(including us)?
Yeah most people buy the main game and that’s all. Some give it a shot then like it and buy the DLCs, some don’t.
And some people buy the whole pack before even try the game and sit in front of it ten hours after the installation then glad to bought it.(Like me)
So how many people actually have the whole pack, plays daily, done atleast %50 of the achievements etc. That matters because I don’t believe it’s just us; these 150-200 people in the forum. So on the matter of numbers, I don’t think the game is dead yet.
But since the so called veteran players are so minor among the all customers; the balancing and updating the game itself is purely depending on our game experience, thoughts and feedbacks.
So I don’t think those ‘‘elite builders’’ are completely moaning about they nerf our builds. They got some points, but they also lack of motivation to play apparently so it’s their decision and they won’t make the game dead just because they stop posting builds in the forum.
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They just deleted the game like Dmt, mad_lee and others
They can be still playing Grim Tools. And will we be informed if they reinstall it? I hope so 
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Well man, I understand you guys want to be listen more by devs. Which is your right. You’re probably the most dedicated ones among the veteran community. So it’s sad but come on will they start PoE 2? lol. You guys made building a competition which motivates you to play more. You got your wishes time to time also, so you should use your community to pressure for some changes but with analitic reasoning not just by moaning. Not just because each patch one of your build get nerfed. So it’s their decision to delete the game or fight for it as Safarel Community. You’re probably the only ones care about crucible times. So your build making interest comes from your group not by balance changes devs made.