Deadly Momentum is not used as a global buff like LA or SH.
Quite disappointed. Actually, I agree with most of the content in this topic. Elemental cadence is an exception. It has received a lot of powerful equipment support from FoA, making it competitive. Elemental cadence with Awakened Nar’s Arcane Destroyer is also good. Like Ceno lists, elemental cadence has tdm, high weapon damage, high flat damage, and fast attack speed, almost all things cadence needs. Maybe crit damage is the only lacking thing.
But other damage types are not as lucky. They have not got such a big buff and performs much worse.
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Took me until this link to realize you were also using unli arcane will. Yeah seems like it’s just so much mods stuffed into ele cadence which it probably deserves since it’s been the meme ever since the start of gd
It is used in Cadence builds. Probably pure coincidence though.
But not in a way like LA or SH that boost other skills. It is just used to boost Cadence and WPS.
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It is, but I think we need some proper comparison of final weapon damage values of builds so we can properly talk about it.
Don’t really know what you mean by this so I can’t address this
Even if it does, another aa build using the same wps that fast charges cadence still hits 3x at the same rate. So dps comparisons are still the same.
The core nature of how Cadence functions and its place in a build (Being mutually exclusive to other no cooldown abilities) means that it directly competes with other similar abilities, as you’re either using Cadence OR these other abilities.
Thus, like with anything else, these will be compared to each other. Especially by these forum goers who look very closely at end-game performances.
Since, it’s a case of “Why use X, when Y is just better?”
Even more so when Cadence doesn’t bring anything particularly unique to the table (Unlike, say Feral Claws that comes with Rip and Tear, so even if FC isn’t as good as other AA options, it makes up for it by having this entire second other skill with it)
Like, cleave/pass through is cool but not unique (Especially now with Onslaught having item modifiers that provide both). DM is cool, but not unique (And unlike other global buffs like LA/SH you can’t use it alongside the skills that benefit most from it as they are the skills Cadence is directly competing with in the first place)
Dunno if it got mentioned already but I just remembered Cadence is also very RNG dependent because it needs to hit the OA lottery more often than other autoattacks. If you got 20% crit then it doesn’t matter when you hit the 2 crits in 10 attacks. With Cadence you better pray it hits on the Cadence hits.
Brother.
/10chars
Now I know if it did 
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Only good phys cadence build is dw warborn. I managed to do all content on ascendant with a warborn BM except Uber Beaver, which needed me to swap to belgo set. I’ll try again in the future sometime maybe with some new FoA gear thrown in and see if it helps.
Warborn plus aetherwarped cleaver plus crimson claws somehow polishes a turd into a diamond by just adding so much aoe, % phys dmg and wd to the skill.
Biggest issue for me is that the mechanics of cadence make lifesteal sustain much worse than other similar builds like belgo because the dps isn’t constant in small quick increments. This also makes it basically unplayable with 2H builds unless you can somehow stack insane regen.
The implementation of fighting form also sucks and is my second biggest issue. With cadence interacting poorly with WPS it needs to give way more of a bonus to phys dmg to encourage investment rather than primarily being an aoe upgrade. 99% of builds normally leave it at one point.
A boring but functional immediate fix would be adding a shitload of % dmg to fighting form and lifesteal to lethal momentum.
when you say chunky “how chunky” is that monkey, and isnt’ it still kinda just a normal dmg boost case then? 
*i get values likely wont be equal, but for simplicity sake
10% crit modifier vs 10%tdm modifier does how much? - when i see crit mods i just think “ok tdm/multiplier but with rng” 
, and i got the impression we don’t want rng with cadence but having it be more consistent (no disrupts etc, faster discharge). With bigger values/50% crit dmg boost, gating it off by crit chance, seems like it would be “more” unappealing than straight dmg/dps increase, and put it closer in the old upheaval category “jank”
Or perhaps “worse” than old upheaval, since a cadence crit doesnt’ actually guarantee it crits on all targets at the same time right? (adding more variable to the mix)
After playing with winds and aar i recalled the “max speed” idea, and also thought, what if Cadence charges granted certain CC immunity, like EoR, if it would make it more fluid too, or if it’s negligible what we experience already at 80% (while it still not dealing with the big factor of fumble) ?
It all boils down to this. Cadence needs to start getting numbers that reflect it basically not proccing WPS and dividing all dmg by 3 on… every… single… skill modifier on every item in the game, same for its base skill values.
I personally dislike the speed approach as I think it should feel chonky and too much speed makes it feel less chonky.
Cadence needs to basically feel as if deadly momentum gave you onslaught stacks and 3rd hit was able to consume them.
Or what if Cadence gained charges out of combat, so that it always starts with a cadence hit when you freshly engage in combat.
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I think it’s a combination of three stats that need to be improved in order to make it work: speed, OA and flat damage. Not just a major improvement to damage, but the buff being distributed around these three. And only on the skill line. No equipment changes.
This is kinda counter productive. The more damage Deadly Momentum bestows upon your basic attacks, the nearer they feel to the Cadence proc itself, making Cadence feel less chonky.
Speed increases the rate of chonk, meaning more chonk over time.
This is highly unlikely, and unintuitive for Speed, because you won’t be able to see the effects of Max Speed boosts until you have equipment to push your Attack Speed over the baseline cap. And furthermore, it IS Cadence equipment that needs improvement in the first place, because as the OP kept referencing, most existing Cadence items do NOT give the skill anything it actually wants.
which begs the question/what Zantai’s pov-reasoning is (since surely he’s aware), why does so many Cadence mod just have regular or even smoll direct flat dmg mods
I distinctly remember it being raised as “annoying” before even/by non Ceno-thesis’, that most of the flat dmg mods was the “worst” or not that helpful at best, even from a “just boost dmg to fix” feedback
Well probably because “what Cadence wants” most has to be given to Deadly Momentum and the tech/knowledge that that could be done didn’t happen until literally 10ish hours before FoA released.
Still, Crit Damage could have been given to Cadence and it’s a little surprising that it never got it.
But (Max) Attack Speed and OA/% OA would have to come from Deadly Momentum mods.
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Huh, how is DM giving onslaught stacks to be consumed by 3rd hit giving basic non-cadence attacks more damage? (Obviously the whole thing was a metaphor)
I think you misunderstood as I meant exactly the opposite of what you thought I meant
sure, but then it’s still have that puzzling “why crit instead of tdm”/isn’t it just rng variable dmg vs reliable dmg?
In an extreme example for simplicity’s sake, let’s say you have 1 Weapon Damage and your Cadence hit has 500% Weapon Damage and 5 innate damage, meaning Cadence procs for 10 damage.
If Deadly Momentum gives you 100 Damage, your basic attacks will then deal 101 Damage while the Cadence proc deals 510.
Where in the initial situation your basic attacks and Cadence itself were different by an order of magnitude (10x), with Deadly Momentum they are both of the same order of magnitude, and by a good margin. (5.05x)
Which is to say that even though Deadly Momentum boosts both, DM does lessen the proportionate gap between basic attacks and the Cadence proc, meaning the “Chonk” of Cadence is less different from your regular attacks than it was before. Adding WPS into the mix for basic attacks lessens this further.