Camera Abuse, Aggro Abuse

SR has been made a complete joke with camera abuse mate. Recently, there was a build posted using 2x devil tongues. The build was however built for two-handed weapons (e.g. kraken, searing might transmutor, etc.).

It was still able to hit SR 75+

When was this camera stuff discovered, and did a patch make this possible?

i donā€™t knwo when it was discovered, but its been used by the chinese community for awhile now, and I canā€™t remember the username of the person who shared this titbit here so i canā€™t credit said individual

Guessing this is going to be addressed next month now that Crate is aware?

i donā€™t know. would be a very unpopular move. and thereā€™s not been a huge push for it either

Why unpopular move, If it is not working as intended? I personally feel it as exploit and not gonna use it even if everybody else do it!

because the chinese community is one of the largest

Then bring back the DA meta :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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iirc, DA meta was actually brought to Zā€™s attention by the chinese community because they wanted it nerfed.

Not so much this camera thing.

So? I doubt Crate wouldnā€™t fix something just because a community is big.

iā€™m not implying that. Iā€™m just saying that it would be an unpopular move, and the community seems okay with it.

i.e. thereā€™s been no indication that this will change.

but z does what z wants, and it may very well come to pas

Aggro abuse has always been a thing. Camera abuse just makes it consistent. Being against camera abuse but pro aggro abuse is being weird.

Anyways, I think aggro always worked like that since the beginning. But it never was relevant until SR.

Well the central theme of SR is the randomness. If camera abuse makes it consistent then that theme is being undermined. Regular aggro abuse wasnā€™t 100% and that at least made SR a risk.

Aggro abuse is bad enough already but itā€™s been left like that so long itā€™s become normal. Camera aggro abuse is just extra exploits to make the exploiting easier. Just bring the bosses in one/two at a time already with aggro or instantly aggro the whole room no matter where your cameraā€™s pointing.
Obv that last one would (rightly) cause outrage so it wonā€™t be happening but Iā€™d like to see the camera exploit fixed at least.

I donā€™t think camera aggro is an acceptable mechanic. I donā€™t really think boss pulling is an acceptable mechanic but the boss rooms are so unbalanced that having them all bum-rush you every time would be worse.
Itā€™s just sad to see players ā€˜fixingā€™ the issue by having to use exploits.

Speaking of which Iā€™ve been doing a lot of SR 50 shards on weaker chars lately and the small Log room that aggros everyone seems much less randomly impossible these days (it can still be quite bad just not so often) so I dunno, maybe it can be balanced in some way.

Imo playing SR and cheesing it are completely different things. Camera abuse isnā€™t intentional but find loop in the system. Like early FG days builds with pets/player scaling pets with snapshots. Itā€™s cheesy and was removed. I never used it nor was advocating for itā€™s removal.

Same here, if itā€™s not intentional, that means itā€™s a bug. Bug should be fixed. But donā€™t mind players that are turning their cameras to avoid aggro.

But SR is cheese. Itā€™s balanced around cheese and unplayable without cheese. It just cannot do without cheese! Like a pizza! :joy:

Aggromerabuse is just a question of whether you let that cheese fall off your fork on the way to your mouth.

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Since this thread evolved into a discussion about aggro abuse, hereā€™s my 2 cents.

Before I knew about the camera exploit, I did not really enjoy SR. Normal chunks were quite fun, but boss rooms took the fun away. The exploit however allows me to enjoy all of SR. Boss rooms feel more like a Bonus Stage at this point, which makes them kinda redundant compared to regular chunks, but Iā€™m fine with that.

I wonder if Crate is planning on adressing this whole controversy, and if they do, which way they will take. Btw I would not classify the camera thing as a bug, I think itā€™s just how the game engine works. I donā€™t know if itā€™s possible to change it, but if it is, Crate should do it. But then they also should adress the huge RNG factor that makes boss chunks a PITA in the first place. People would not resort to exploits if that was not the case.

Iā€™d like to leave one suggestion on how to solve this dilemma:

Replace all current boss chunks with those special chunks (triple log level, maggot level etc).
Usually these special chunks are a greater challenge than normal ones (if they are not, it can be adjusted easily), and camera abuse wonā€™t help much since you are forced to fight your way towards a certain goal. Imho that would make SR a much better experience.

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I donā€™t think it is. aggro abuse is about learning the vision range of each enemy, and knowing how to position yourself.

camera aggro abuse bypasses all that. it makes no logical sense for enemies to get decreased aggro range just because you canā€™t see them.

kinda like this spider:

But thatā€™s the whole point of SR. Itā€™s not supposed to be a consistent, happy farm-time. Especially in deeper shards.

And if youā€™re experiencing this at lower shards, the issue most likely rests with your spec (no offence intended).

Some bugs actually become real features of the game given enough support. If we push through removing camera abuse then the entire chinese community wouldnā€™t have anything to play with, so that might just be left alone.

Using another game as reference, in dota a few bugs which has existed during the earliest days of the game shaped the meta and has remained ever since. Stuff like creep stacking, creep pulling

Itā€™s like the old mortar/totem blocking abuse in cruci. I think the only reason those were removed was because the summons became invulnerable and it wouldā€™ve caused more bugs along the way.

Totally made me think of Gunz The Duel. Which had a whole community based around exploits/bugs in the game and being able to do things that were never intended. To this day it is the only game I had ever played that you could become a literal keyboard ninja and it took hours and hours and actual skill to become good at it. It became so ingrained in the culture of the game it was just accepted as part of it. How I loved it while it lasted.

A significant and unique part of the gameplay was the movement system. Players could run on walls, perform flips off of them, and do quick mid-air dodges in any horizontal direction. Advanced movement and combat techniques were commonly referred to as ā€œK-Styleā€ or Korean style; a variety of techniques fell under this category.[3] These usually exploited the gameā€™s animation and weapon switch systems through a series of animation cancellations to allow the player to perform another action rapidly after the first. One example was the wall cancel; unlike the normal limited method of running on walls intended by the developers, the player can simply jump, dash while mid-air in the direction of the wall, and when close enough to the wall, slash or stab it depending on if the player was using a dagger or a sword. This would cause the player to gain height and momentum by back flipping upwards off of the wall once. With each successive timed wall cancel, it is possible to stay in the air near walls and travel along them indefinitely using this method. This, in addition to the fact that these techniques were possible as a result of exploiting flaws in the animation system, has resulted in them being controversial but they became largely accepted as part of the game.