Camera Abuse, Aggro Abuse

SR has been made a complete joke with camera abuse mate. Recently, there was a build posted using 2x devil tongues. The build was however built for two-handed weapons (e.g. kraken, searing might transmutor, etc.).

It was still able to hit SR 75+

When was this camera stuff discovered, and did a patch make this possible?

i don’t knwo when it was discovered, but its been used by the chinese community for awhile now, and I can’t remember the username of the person who shared this titbit here so i can’t credit said individual

Guessing this is going to be addressed next month now that Crate is aware?

That’s anyone’s guess. Like any bug it depends on both how much work it involves to fix and how important the fix is perceived by the team relative to whatever they’re spending their time on.

i don’t know. would be a very unpopular move. and there’s not been a huge push for it either

Why unpopular move, If it is not working as intended? I personally feel it as exploit and not gonna use it even if everybody else do it!

because the chinese community is one of the largest

Then bring back the DA meta :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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iirc, DA meta was actually brought to Z’s attention by the chinese community because they wanted it nerfed.

Not so much this camera thing.

So? I doubt Crate wouldn’t fix something just because a community is big.

i’m not implying that. I’m just saying that it would be an unpopular move, and the community seems okay with it.

i.e. there’s been no indication that this will change.

but z does what z wants, and it may very well come to pas

Aggro abuse has always been a thing. Camera abuse just makes it consistent. Being against camera abuse but pro aggro abuse is being weird.

Anyways, I think aggro always worked like that since the beginning. But it never was relevant until SR.

Well the central theme of SR is the randomness. If camera abuse makes it consistent then that theme is being undermined. Regular aggro abuse wasn’t 100% and that at least made SR a risk.

Aggro abuse is bad enough already but it’s been left like that so long it’s become normal. Camera aggro abuse is just extra exploits to make the exploiting easier. Just bring the bosses in one/two at a time already with aggro or instantly aggro the whole room no matter where your camera’s pointing.
Obv that last one would (rightly) cause outrage so it won’t be happening but I’d like to see the camera exploit fixed at least.

I don’t think camera aggro is an acceptable mechanic. I don’t really think boss pulling is an acceptable mechanic but the boss rooms are so unbalanced that having them all bum-rush you every time would be worse.
It’s just sad to see players ‘fixing’ the issue by having to use exploits.

Speaking of which I’ve been doing a lot of SR 50 shards on weaker chars lately and the small Log room that aggros everyone seems much less randomly impossible these days (it can still be quite bad just not so often) so I dunno, maybe it can be balanced in some way.

Imo playing SR and cheesing it are completely different things. Camera abuse isn’t intentional but find loop in the system. Like early FG days builds with pets/player scaling pets with snapshots. It’s cheesy and was removed. I never used it nor was advocating for it’s removal.

Same here, if it’s not intentional, that means it’s a bug. Bug should be fixed. But don’t mind players that are turning their cameras to avoid aggro.

But SR is cheese. It’s balanced around cheese and unplayable without cheese. It just cannot do without cheese! Like a pizza! :joy:

Aggromerabuse is just a question of whether you let that cheese fall off your fork on the way to your mouth.

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Since this thread evolved into a discussion about aggro abuse, here’s my 2 cents.

Before I knew about the camera exploit, I did not really enjoy SR. Normal chunks were quite fun, but boss rooms took the fun away. The exploit however allows me to enjoy all of SR. Boss rooms feel more like a Bonus Stage at this point, which makes them kinda redundant compared to regular chunks, but I’m fine with that.

I wonder if Crate is planning on adressing this whole controversy, and if they do, which way they will take. Btw I would not classify the camera thing as a bug, I think it’s just how the game engine works. I don’t know if it’s possible to change it, but if it is, Crate should do it. But then they also should adress the huge RNG factor that makes boss chunks a PITA in the first place. People would not resort to exploits if that was not the case.

I’d like to leave one suggestion on how to solve this dilemma:

Replace all current boss chunks with those special chunks (triple log level, maggot level etc).
Usually these special chunks are a greater challenge than normal ones (if they are not, it can be adjusted easily), and camera abuse won’t help much since you are forced to fight your way towards a certain goal. Imho that would make SR a much better experience.

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I don’t think it is. aggro abuse is about learning the vision range of each enemy, and knowing how to position yourself.

camera aggro abuse bypasses all that. it makes no logical sense for enemies to get decreased aggro range just because you can’t see them.

kinda like this spider:

But that’s the whole point of SR. It’s not supposed to be a consistent, happy farm-time. Especially in deeper shards.

And if you’re experiencing this at lower shards, the issue most likely rests with your spec (no offence intended).

Some bugs actually become real features of the game given enough support. If we push through removing camera abuse then the entire chinese community wouldn’t have anything to play with, so that might just be left alone.

Using another game as reference, in dota a few bugs which has existed during the earliest days of the game shaped the meta and has remained ever since. Stuff like creep stacking, creep pulling

It’s like the old mortar/totem blocking abuse in cruci. I think the only reason those were removed was because the summons became invulnerable and it would’ve caused more bugs along the way.