Chains of Anguish were not a problem but a symptom of a bigger problem

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
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I suspect that was also done after @Zantai watched that @RektbyProtoss stream where he tested our top20 builds, two of them were rocking this belt. One of those builds is a Blitz Warlord made by yours truly.

I might be wrong, but I am guessing devs (dev?) didn’t like that build somewhat circumvented belt’s proc thru stacking obscene amounts of physical resistance and taking Dryad to somewhat compensate for leech drops during belt’s proc. Well first of all I wanna point out that the build being targeted (one of the builds) didn’t score that high in our top20 testing in damage department: just 7.17 in single target damage and 6.97 in aoe among 6 testers who played it. It is a strong build that probably makes our top20 rating but it makes based on its tankiness merit. So again a nerf that targets a tank. (I am guessing another build that caught devs’ (dev’s?) attention was that Chinese Markovian Warlord which also doesn’t have that high of a damage but rather had solid damage and caught a really good SR 75-76 timer).

Now I understand if @Zantai doesn’t want this belt be a thing in endgame builds at all. But I just want to point out why it is used by the builds it is used and why this item was not really op to begin with (otherwise you would see it on every top build, right?). First of all, the proc was already too punishing for most of the builds - without stacking high amounts of physical resistance and having high armor to boot most builds would be prone to dying during the proc. Also not every build could stack enough Elemental resist overcap and builds that relied on adtch also suffered from -tdm% dipping into their leech. Second of all, builds that used it are mostly physical builds. And few things that physical builds are always lacking from gear and devotions is adtch. Stacking enough of it on physical autoattackers is very hard without big sacrifices. Another thing is attack speed, like build in question goes to greath length to stack 175 of it. And of course there is not a single Warlord out there that doesn’t always lack skill points.

So here are my suggestions:

  • Revert the belt nerf. If current phys res values are getting halved it’s already a huge hit to belt users. Increasing the duration of the proc and value of -phys res is an overkill.
  • Physical devotion map needs adtch and speeds. Adding ~5% adtch to one of the Bear nods would really help.
  • Considering skillpoints problems on Warlord I am not sure, maybe someone has a good suggestion here.

Does anyone else here has experience using this belt? What are your thoughts on the nerf?

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Belt was a noob trap even if it worked and only the deepest cut of nerds would defend. Dead thread imo

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The belt seemed fine for all dmg types but physical - no nonphys build would use it in optimized state. The reason it fits some physical builds as bis is exactly the composition of leech and speed it has. Together with oa and crit, which phys dmg benefits from the most, the belt had enough value to outshine other options.

I agree that phys route desperately needs leech. Maybe on Wolverine? Kinda forgotten devo and it fits the theme as an easter egg.

Since phys res was always the main defence of physical dmg, and it’s getting toned down, I think it won’t be out of whack to give phys builds 4-5% adcth in devos.

Otherwise have no problem with the belt being nerfed as a blue item, it’s in line with the design. But I’ve always wanted an Eye of Beronath equivalent for belts as a legendary: smth like +1 to all skills, maybe some cc res and OA/DA.

This game has good skills, let people take them all! :smile:

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heck yea !

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I can’t get this point? Could you please tell me why? Because it’s not a legendary but epic item?

In fact, Warlords generally have more +1 to all XX skills than other builds. It is because WL indeed have many good skills so that people want them all, which makes you feel some lack of skill points. :smile:
We are not going to reverted M Reforged Chains of Oleron to +1 to all WL skills, are we? :joy:

During the late period of v1.2.0.3 I made a compilation of Markovian Soldier + every other class, and they are all doing very well, and all of them are using Chains of Anguish. An interesting thing is, Markovian Battlemage(Battlemage, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator) is stronger than Spellscourge BM, Markovian Tactician(Tactician, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator) is stronger than gunner Tactician, and Markovian Commando(Commando, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator) is stronger than fire FW Commando. However, I don’t think it is Chains of Anguish to be blame because I also constructed a very very budget Markovian WL(Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator) and can also farm 6:00ish SR75-76. IMO if there must be something happening to two of your so-called “top20” and my Markovian Warlord, physical blitz or Markovian Set should be the one to be blame, not Chains of Anguish.

banana_peel is right. The belt was fine for all dmg types but physical - no nonphys build would use it in optimized state.

When we look back to the former Octavius SnB builds involving this belt, they are fine now after the adjustment of Octavius set.

I think this will be a better idea than Dire Bear, which means people have to give up something for the extra 4-5% adcth (Hammer or Owl, for example) rather than free direct buffs.

ADDITION:
Retal builds who wants to use this belt will have severe problems when stacking extra % elemental resist. For example:
One using Chains of Anguish: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Another similar one using Soldier MI belt: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

The one who does not use Chains of Anguish have even higher retal damage. The trade-off is like:
some retal damage + A debuff that decreased phys res and move speed
for
%1 more rr + 2% adcth + 5% attack speed + crit damage.

Damage is almost the same, so it’s more like:

A debuff that decreased phys res and move speed.
for
2% adcth.

There is no necessity of adding a retal damage penalty at all.

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It’s unfortunate that one of the few good epic items will get nerfed after it became popular amongst endgame players.

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Two points I want to bring up here:

  1. With Fangs of Asterkarn being a thing, and epic items potentially being upgradable, this may be a storm in a tea cup because the Chains of Anguish may be upgradable in FoA.

  2. I find it funny that one item gets tuned down and your suggestion is not only “how about no” but also let’s buff the build in general as well. Hilarious.

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Yup. The item is decently good and I don’t understand the nerf. Like why specifically this item? For the longest time I looked at this thing and I thought that there’s just too much downside to using it and now it’s gonna be even worse.

Why is the item even in the game? At what point is anyone supposed to use this? Certainly not on a character without great gear and certainly not end game now post nerf? Why does this exist?

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Its indeed in a good shape as it was. I don’t like it and never use it because the penalty is another thing to keep in mind when playing eg SR. But if people want to use it, who don’t mind taking care of another debuff, let them.

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You know, in some old roguelike games there were cursed items. In most cases you wouldn’t know the item is cursed, so most players would equip them, only to find out that their character started falling over because of cursed boots, or stuff began to fall from char’s hands because of cursed gloves. Cursed amulet of teleportation would teleport your character randomly, ring of hunger will make him/her want more food. And you couldn’t take those items off so easily.

In other words, those items were punishing players for not being cautious and/or patient enough.

Chains of Anguish though…they provide pretty nice stats, you’re aware of its penalty, and yet almost nobody uses it. Solution to that? Make it even more punitive, so that even those one-and-a-half builds that do use it will stop doing so. Ele res debuff you can mitigate, total damage debuff you can’t, and phys res debuff in 1.2.1.0 is a deathwish.

I mean, I would’ve understand it if this was some obscure meme/troll item that dropped from a secret boss or whatever, like Gazerman. But it’s not? You can even craft it. Hey, I have an idea: make it apply constant Sunder when equipped, but bonuses should be crazy as well, like +2 to all skills, 50% crit damage, 20% total speed, 10% total damage (no, I’m not demented, not yet anyway).

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I like your way of thinking, I want that kind of item…