I started playing Grim Dawn a lot, I play mostly solo.
Going through the addition of Malmut, I began to wonder how to make sure that there was a PvP interest in the game. After thinking about it and remembering past games, I came up with the idea of creating a Covenant system (not to be confused with a reputation system).
Given the variety of leveling in this game, there is a very good situation in terms of loot after your own or someone else’s death.
For example: If you upgraded an Occultist = dedication of your character to the power of Сhthon, in case of defeat, the winner receives the “Blood of Chthon”
I got the idea! But I was talking about real-time intrusion.
I just wish people would invade my server and try to kill me, the covenant system would be a good incentive (a reward in the form of resources, depending on the covenant, is a good incentive)
i’d guess there wasn’t as huge an attraction to it (aside from technical complications ofc)
GD is already primarily focused on SP in most aspects (balancing, features etc), and Zantai has said MP component was so small it’s part of why it didn’t have the same feature/update attention as ex live service games or server based ARPGs (aside from being a small team starting out focusing on it being a SP making more sense)
Part of that then is both game/player balancing
(one of the reasons i recall the old pvp challenge restricted level was higher level builds get absurd for pvp’ing and insta killing)
and ofc 0 anti cheat whatsoever
You’ll already see complaints by players around the MP aspect of GD/it being less “favoured” by the devs to their eyes, (connection/stability issues/MP specific glitches, aside from the balancing/cheater aspect)
So while i obviously can’t speak for Crate, i’d almost take a stab at a guess they could feel it might be an additional can of worms they might not feel is worth the hassle/consequences, for a sub % of already <10% of the playerbase (unsure if the 10% MP was actually accurate/the number used back when, or even if so if that proportion still holds up today)
*thinking that based on other MP feature requests that’s been turned down, that might on appearance have even broader community appeal, than the more niche aspect of a Souls-like PvP mode
*edit. this isn’t me saying “don’t do it”, more trying to explain why it could be one of those features that might not happen/possibly not hold out high excitement hopes over
I don’t expect any shock about this idea. I just want to see what the players think about it.
About the implementation… In MP mode, there is a choice of PvP mode, but it is focused more on match-fixing than on “invading” the server and hunting for the host.
As for the balance in MP mode and cheaters: the mode is not esports, turning this mode on/off is a purely personal matter for the player, and cheating for the sake of a crafting resource is not profitable. This is for fun, not for leaderboard or something.
Maybe they’ll approve of the idea, maybe not… The main thing is to try.
heh, was in the process of editing in a footnote in my comment when your reply popped up
*edit. this isn’t me saying “don’t do it”, more trying to explain why it could be one of those features that might not happen/possibly not hold out high excitement hopes over
that comment wasn’t actually about status/gains, but griefing
i’d almost imagine/expect an invasion or any pvp centred feature to automatically increase attraction of, less than courteous players, /people “wanting to ruin fun”, for just the fun of doing that
*but that might ofc also just be me being a jaded gloomer
Enable or not to enable this mode is up to the host;
He does not lose items or inventory in case of death;
There is no point in cheating or somehow deceiving the system, the resources for crafting are worth such efforts;
Players will report on the build imbalance themselves, if they want to.
I do not think that the implementation of the PvP “Invasion” mode will be so difficult.
There’s just a need to limit teleportation and limit the invasion location.
i think my point is being misunderstood
in every MP or PvP game ever, including ones with anti cheat, players get annoyed by cheaters or getting killed by cheaters, even where there is nothing lost, it’s just “inconvenient” to them.
the very game this mode being inspired from being a great examples, players hate hackers/cheaters in Dark Souls PvP even if they just wasted a few seconds or minute dying.
that’s it, simple comment about players griefing another that often is disliked/considered a detraction (but then worse in a game with 0 guards as the floodgates are open/no barrier to entry)
i get that… but it doesn’t mean it makes it more attractive… “just like other MP games” (- in dark souls you also control invasions by simply not being human etc and still people dislike bad encounters)
so if people are already complaining about cheaters or MP now, while the game has low pvp/mp incentive, i’m imagining a world where those complaints multiply because the incentive to grief just increased
And my guess is then that might be part of consideration(can of worms) devs might not be as interested allocating resources to a less utilized feature, decreasing the amount we should hold our hopes for.
if that makes it make more sense?
*basically i’m speculating devs making an old fashioned pros vs cons list, for XY development/feature or MP event added
and on the right column cons side is then griefing, complaints, no anti cheat to magnify issues
i might be 100% incorrect in those 3 elements being a detractor/con aspect in devs’ mind. but i’m guessing they could play in the decision’s weights on hassle to deal with
The game has a “Hardcore” mode with 1 life, does this make the game more attractive? No! Not many people like this mode either. It’s not comfortable and it makes the chairs burn!
However, this does not make the game less attractive, it all depends on the developer.
aye, but Hardcore mode feature also doesn’t require separate development and time/resources allocated to create and “maintain”.
MP invasion, exclusive pvp feature etc would, it’s not a minor already built in flag.
So because it would require extra dev time, separate resources “for this specific thing”, it might then be something that gets far far less priority sentiment combined with everything.
again also because other MP features has gotten dismissed, that might be even more widely desired, yet also in part dismissed for the same reasons.
It’s not like they can just turn on a button to have this, it would need to be made, that costs time and manpower, that “investment” then (usually) needs to be worth it to devs. And other MP features has already been considered to not be added because of it, since MP portion was too small/existing infrastructure not present. Aside from above notes, Dark Souls pvp style might then be even smaller utilized, thus any potential detractor weigh that much more (if MP is 10% of players and DS pvp perceived to be used by 2% of 10%, so less worth).
*again speculating, but i could imagine it to be elements decreasing the chance we should be hyped for
Hardcore absolutely does make the game more attractive. Though not everyone wants to play HC, it’s a fair challenge and fun for those that like it.
Fighting cheaters in PVP is never fun and, so far as I can see, 100% of people “invading” my games would be cheaters - let’s be realistic about that. Why would I ever want to turn that option on?
i would even venture a guess that they aren’t majority of players in most MP games
They just end up causing disproportionate amount of problems for the others/majority real players
(for every 10 legit player 1 cheater, but 1 cheater ends affecting 10 regulars, as random number example)
PVP has never been particularly popular, or balanced in ARPGs. Yes, there are all the stories of gathering ears in D2, but that was never a majority of players. It’s always been a pve-forward genre, with numbers that scale way out of proportion (monsters have orders of magnitude more health than players).
Systems like you describe, to entice players to participate, tend to create resentment, because then there is pve reward for doing something people don’t necessarily want to do. So it feels forced.
