Can’t wait for someone to start saying that the Crucible nerfs were unnecessary and we just needed to “git gud”. :rolleyes:
Here’s your bone.
git gut, play w/o buffs and banners. 
Can’t be tactician? I imagine fever retaliator
Nope, actually Tactician. Full Retaliator is doing fine, but Hybrid has at least 30% chance to be shredded.
Granted, this is my old build, but still, that was a nasty surprise. So many RR at once.
The main thing I liked about tactician is being able to fully face tank crucible, and without the DA stuff
Well yeah, usually, it facetanks absolutely everything and everyone. But if you stand up to Reaper for a long time, he will obliterate your resistances through the roof and basically, oneshot you with his charged attack, while you can have negative res.
That was a major concern for both Crucible and campaign, and many people talked about it. I wonder, if Big Z actually does something about it.
Those early patch notes certainly look promising, and the buffs to towers and blessings look like something I’m definitely gonna appreciate. Hopefully it’ll help tone down the ridiculous amount of DA-love lately. I mean, due credit to the people who first discovered and used it, it was pretty interesting to see at first…but dear lord, it was like opening Pandora’s Stalwart Box. :eek:
That’s strange. The offensive video I posted tanks kuba/reaper and grava/reaper before they first reduced crucible OA, reaper rr and kuba pools potency.
Maybe this happens only in campaign? Or maybe they toned it down? I honestly don’t know, that was several good months ago.
Anyway, with changes above, even Reaper should be doable enough.
Reaper in Crucible is not as bursty as the MC version in my experience so maybe that’s why.
OR they nerfed him. He shreds hybrids on bad days so I can’t reliably test it on my end cause the last two tries went smoothly
Wow, that’s sweet
Boo! Weak engine
I can’t endorse anything less elegant than my last solution. It’s the only proper way. 
That just means every crucible build will shoot for 3900 DA.
First I do apologize if I offended you with my previous post it wasn’t my intention.
You, and when I say you I mean all of you from Crate team, did and are still doing a marvelous job with this game and no one can argue or take that away from you, its a fact.
Reading your previous post I got impression that you are exactly doing capping DA stacking and almost noting substantially else, or to use your phrase tossing a bone to compensate.
I do admit, after reading your announced patch notes, that I was wrong, though I think that we can agree that tossing a bone, or nerf and bandages scenario was seen from you in some occasions and thus I was under impression that it can happen again. Im glad that I was wrong and that you took more serious approach on the issue.
Just taking time to read and reply on players/ex-players opinions here is hell of a thing you are doing and I really admire and respect that.
Though I dont play this game any more I really love it and somehow still feel attached to it thus I would really like to see it grow and became better and better, like most if not all people here on forum after all. So plz even if written bit offensively in not so good English bear in mind that my previous post doesn’t carry anything malicious and its under its candy wrapper more than friendly.
Peace out
I don’t exactly have the pleasure of free time to print out everything multiple people said in a 20+ page thread so that I can tailor my response exactly the way you want it, but since I was more or less the instigator, here you go.
I already said that this was a Crucible problem, in fact the post you completely ignored spelt it out here: “There have been many, many new builds posted here that handle all the Campaign content beautifully that have nothing to do with DA stacking, so this is primarily a Crucible problem.” You can find that exact sentence in my previous post because I copied and pasted it from there. In fact, every single one of the high DA builds in Zhuugus’ thread can be modified for Campaign content and they’d do that perfectly fine with no DA stacking whatsoever.
I voted in the poll that this was a Crucible problem. I also said that there are multiple builds that need to be able to stay in one spot because that’s the only way their offensive skills can even work. I’d love to see these build concepts work without having to DA stack, but nobody is discussing what ways they can buff other survival concepts so that stacking DA is unnecessary. Strutting around about HOW BAD THE GAME DESIGN IS!!!11!! is easy. Actually proposing solutions where everyone benefits is hard.
What I said does not change the fact that you are seriously trying to propose the idea that a Mortar Trap Purifier that needs to be close to enemies to have the shells hit, a Korba’s Dual Wield Trickster, and a Lightning Storm Totem Warder can be called nearly identical because they have ONE stat that’s somewhat in common and ignoring the differences in approaches, offensive strategy, devotions, and enemy clearing. You are letting your irrational hatred prevent you from viewing this problem with an objective lens. No matter how many times you stomp your feet and make prissy little one-liners, up is not down and will never be down.
If you actually read any of my posts, what I said was there were multiple build types that could not accomplish Gladiator 170 through conventional means of survival while keeping true to their build purpose. The only way that these builds were able to break through 170 was to replace rings and such that didn’t contribute much in the first place with Stalwart Rings so they can actually play the game without having the massive damage waves either kill them immediately or force them to kite so much that 95% of their offensive strategy falls before it can even get started.
The only thing my posts were meant to intend was that before we go off with sweeping changes that end up dumpstering these builds, we should discuss why these conventional methods of survival aren’t enough and how to buff these methods so that they can beat 170 while keeping to their specific flavor. We have 20+ pages all saying nerf DA and no pages talking about how can builds that would no longer have the luxury of having DA be able to survive the onslaught.
For the record, with the exception of the PTH cap that I will continue to vote against, every one of Zantai’s recommended changes look great.
Except you are being ignorant as usual. I’m talking about different variations of a build concept. Are you seriously gonna say that i can have three completely different variants of that Mortar Trap build that can do the 170 Gladiator? I can’t because they all gonna have nearly the same setup because i have to stack DA. That means nearly same item and devotion setup.
My Lightning Mortar Trap is gonna be nigh identical to my Fire Mortar version. I can’t go to like Hand of Ultos or Spear of the Heavens, i pretty much have to go to all devotions with DA like Solemn Watcher and Wolverine and stuff my item slots with 80% of the same items my Fire Mortar Trap version has. Wow, one deals blue damage and the other red, such difference. :rolleyes:
Because of DA stacking i literally can only do a single build for each build concept. DA stacking “enabling” build diversity is not freaking build diversity. And again, a single stat being the deal breaker is bad design. What’s so hard to understand?
You think even if Crate nerfs the Crucible people are gonna stop this DA stacking meta? They are not. DA stacking is a really easy way to greatly decrease enemy damage, even in the main campaign. It’s something really easy to abuse that has very low negative consequences.
And again, both DA stacking and Crucible are the problem. The former gives the illusion of build diversity while being broken and the latter is overturned.
Kind of tired of repeating myself, so i’m done with this.
Blessing of Ulo now also boosts resistances against all damage types by 33% (8% to Physical).
The above plus the lowered Nemesis damage will make a big difference. Finally you don’t have to have every damage type overcapped by a huge amount to counteract enemy RR.
This also lowers the bar on equipment required to tackle Crucible, which I’m definitely in the pro camp for. You’ll still need Stun resist but you don’t need as much resistance as you did before, and you might even leave the less dangerous types uncapped before the Ulo blessing.
The above indirectly improves build diversity as well, because previously builds that were nonviable (as they couldn’t muster the necessary resists) may be interesting in the new patch.
Good stuff.
I could see this being the rise of DW melee builds becoming usable in 170 without them requiring like 4 MIs or 3k+ armor.
There is nothing I am being ignorant about - we are using different vantage points for comparison. Your vantage point is the theoretical builds you’d like to see, i.e. a Fire Mortar Trap build vs a Lightning Mortar Trap build. My vantage point is the actual reality of Crucible in that there were zero Mortar Trap builds viable for 170 Crucible before DA became a thing. Saying that a Lightning Mortar Trap build has different gearing + devotions from a Fire Mortar Trap build is pointless if both of them are completely unviable for Crucible.
I said this multiple times - Crucible was the problem. We agree that Crucible is the problem, so I don’t know why you continue to bark at me like it wasn’t.
Because of DA stacking i literally can only do a single build for each build concept. DA stacking “enabling” build diversity is not freaking build diversity. And again, a single stat being the deal breaker is bad design. What’s so hard to understand?
Before the DA compilation, many build concepts had ZERO builds that worked for Crucible. 1 is still greater than 0. 1>0. The fact that the single stat of DA made the difference provides us with an opportunity to ask ourselves “why does this stat work when other stats don’t?” “Why do people feel like they have to stack DA for a build concept to work?” Then we ask ourselves “how can we make other stats work so that we don’t have to rely on DA stacking?” “How do we differentiate a Lightning Mortar Trap build enough from a Fire Mortar Trap build that they feel different but at the same time both of them work well?” If you can’t even get one Mortar Trap build to work, you can forget trying to get multiple different versions of them working.
This is a Crucible problem.
This is a Crucible problem!
The only thing this thread has accomplished in 20 pages is people circlejerking clucking in agitatation robotically repeating “DA IS BAD! NERF IT! NERF IT NOW!” Nobody is even attempting to answer the question, “so we get the DA nerf, what do builds that had to rely on DA to survive do now? Just lay down and die?” If we don’t answer that question, then when the inevitable DA nerfs happen, we just go back to having build concepts having ZERO working builds.
You think even if Crate nerfs the Crucible people are gonna stop this DA stacking meta? They are not. DA stacking is a really easy way to greatly decrease enemy damage, even in the main campaign. It’s something really easy to abuse that has very low negative consequences.
And again, both DA stacking and Crucible are the problem. The former gives the illusion of build diversity while being broken and the latter is overturned.
People will stop DA stacking when they have access to alternate methods that work. People tend to go for speed and boss kill times for Campaign, so they will go for the extra damage if their survivability allows them to do so. The only things that stops people from tweaking and trying different devotion set-ups is if they’ve done Crucible enough times to make a reasonable conclusion that if their build is not A+B+C, then you die, no questions asked, no diversity here. It’s a Crucible problem because campaign is easy enough that stacking DA just ends up losing DPS because they already have enough survivability with just their basic skills.
Again, you can look at the pages of threads of builds that work for campaign that use a whole variety of new concepts that have nothing to do with DA stacking whatsoever. People will try new things if they realize that it has a chance of succeeding.
Crucible takes away that chance right now and it’s the real cause of constraining the types of possible builds out there. I have high confidence that people will try different ways of approaching the new Crucible, but there are many build concepts that will need other things buffed if they are going to be able to beat Gladiator 170 without DA stacking.
What is the reason for such change in Mirror of Ereoctes duration? Is it related to the issue discussed in this topic?
People will stop DA stacking when they have access to alternate methods that work. People tend to go for speed and boss kill times for Campaign, so they will go for the extra damage if their survivability allows them to do so.
Strongly agree with this one, and possibly can extend that logic to Crucible also. Many fail to understand that simple logic. They thought as long as DA meta is there, all are going to abuse it to the ground. One very simple logic in ARPG: end game playstyle mainly focuses on maximizing damage output while having just the right defence, because you want to kill bosses as fast as possible, to increase loot farming rate. If I have other options for defense that make it just right, why the hell would I sacrifice my extra damage to go for DA investment (which is seriously gear and devotion dependent). I’m not idiot or coward. I go for the efficiency.
Arcanist
Mirror of Ereoctes: duration now partially scales with rank, starting at 2s and scaling up to its original values of 3s by rank 6
I find it hard to understand this change also. This change only affects leveling period in the campaign as end game builds will max out Mirror anyway. All of us also agree that campaign is fine the way it is now. There is little value nerfing its mid ranks. 1s increase in cooldown of Time Dilation is a much more impactful nerf.