DA Stacking and the Crucible

[Naasir]

A build is defined mainly by class combination with skill selection, followed by how many points to put in each skill, then come the core gears (a legendary set 99% of the time). Those are what creates build diversity.

The rest of the items to fill up the vacancy, either to further support a certain skill selection (and its corresponding points invested) or to get more offense/defense. This is gear diversity.

Devotion diversity: self-explanatory.

I put it very clear in my disclaimer that extreme DA meta is a bit broken and need some nerf, but not to the ground.

When you see a 4k+ DA, you turn away, that is YOUR CHOICE. This game doesn’t have a f**king leaderboard like D3. Who cares about your choice? Elitists who would like a decent level of challenge, go ahead and play your own build. All I see in this whole thread is:

A plays the game with godly reflex and good skill combination (aka meta builds). A feels superior to others. A is an elitist.

B discovers a general formula so that B-Z can succeed without that much (hardcore) skills and calculation. Mass satisfaction is achieved.

A feels cheated because no one cares about his showoff of knowledge and skills anymore, because anyone can be successful. A demands change. This is fair, talent should be appreciated.

Instead of just nerfing the formula to make A feels more appreciated, the government completely disables the formula, forcing B-Z to either follow the way of A, possess A’s skills, or get eliminated.

The people complaining about DA meta is 80% logical and 20% jealousy. This 20% is too obvious to miss.

Coming from someone who has only ever done Aspirant 150 in Crucible: If I ever tackle the most challenging content in GD, I’d want it to be because I chose a somewhat clever skill/devotion combination, made creative use of one or two special items (like those super elitist and jerky and jealous player group A) and overall played rather well.

When it comes down to equipping 3-6x Stalwart of whatever and following a predefined DA-devotion route, I’m not interested in crucible 170 at all.

Guess I’m player C. I’m sure you’ll find some insults for those as well.

Btw: When I’m looking at these forums and seeing all the help those elitists provide to players, not only concerning their own builds but also build ideas lesser experienced players come up with I wonder how you get that elitist impression in the first place.

[MortalKombat]

We have 19 pages of discussions and nobody caught wind of this tidbit. It’s nigh impossible to have a constructive path forward if Praetorians are seriously trying to argue that increasing build diversity lowers build diversity. I put the above in bold because having builds that couldn’t be able to beat 170 in the past now have it possible to beat 170 thanks to heightened DA is literally the definition of increased diversity.

“Diversity”, that relies only on abusing single imbalanced mechanics is nothing more than an illusion! Why dont add a set of items, that grant invulnerability to any build, as 10 piece set bonus? Any build, equiping that set, will be “viable”. Do you really want to see THAT kind of “diversity” in game? Because that’s what DA stacking really does!

[blingi]

What is this discussion even about. You need some sort of way to survive if you want to clear 170 crucible, and DA currently provides the best way to do that. If it didn’t exist, people would stack HP and regen instead and you’d cry to nerf that?
Or should only kiting builds be able to do crucible and it should be impossible to tank the later waves even when you have full BiS gear that you spent hundreds of hours farming and a well thought out build?

[thepowerofmediocrity]

Because what i said is 100% true. It’s a crutch and a really bad one. If the only way to increase build diversity is by overusing a single stat, that’s NOT build diversity. Just love how you ignore other people that said the same thing i said and what i said above that to try to give your argument any weight. Nice :rolleyes:

Most of your build setup (the thing that makes build diversity exist in the first place) becomes nigh irrelevant when the major thing that even keeps you alive is a single stat. Basically nothing else of your build setup matters except for DA. That’s BAD design. The builds i mentioned changed their setup so much to stack DA that they became nigh identical. The only actual difference they have is a few skills, everything else is nearly the same.

People already complain about the physique meta, this is a million times worse. You are literally forced to use the same 80% of the items and devotions everyone else uses. Ugdenbog Leather, Runebound Topaz, stuff with Protection, Stalwart and Readiness. Devotions like Wolverine and Solemn Watcher. That’s what you call build diversity? I sure as hell don’t.

You have a point, but it’s out of scope. Your point is that there’s only one viable defensive stat for certain types of builds when it comes to clearing waves 150-170 of crucible. We agree with this, but nerfing that stat doesn’t create a better situation. Rather, other defensive stats should be buffed so there are other viable approaches to clearing 150-170 crucible for these types of builds.

Buffing of other defensive stats is an entirely separate discussion that should be covered at some point. That said, nerfing DA to oblivion isn’t a solution, it’s a step backwards. Nerfing crucible/buffing blessings similarly doesn’t fix the issue that certain class combinations/types of builds have vastly superior defensive capacities than others. If we want to talk about balance, DA is an incredible balancing factor in that it allows a wide variety of builds to reach a similar level of defensive effectiveness. Maybe the upper cap of EHP achievable through DA is too high, so a slight formula tweak is necessary, but gutting DA as a whole (as currently suggested by Zantai) seems like an overreaction and a mistake (from my perspective).

Mator’s post sums up my thoughts about this: if DA stacking was never a thing, there wouldn’t be this alternate realm of diversity where a similar number of build concepts would be succeeding, you’d just be in the original, pre-Chinese build compilation situation where if you weren’t a super-defensive Soldier or a CDR-stack Arcanist, “lel as if you’re ever going to do 170.” There have been many, many new builds posted here that handle all the Campaign content beautifully that have nothing to do with DA stacking, so this is primarily a Crucible problem.

There’s also the factor that not only have Nemesis pants and shoulders provide extremely good MI options in which stacking Stalwart was possible, but jewelry is pretty barren when it comes to contributing to build diversity. Before the DA meta, most Crucible builds were simply stacking Judicator’s rings + Peerless Eye + Mark of Divinity. Not exactly a flowering of diversity to be had there. It would be great if most jewelry were buffed so that builds that operate on a particular concept would actually need a specific piece of jewelry to function better. More items like Time-flux band, items that grant good amounts of secondary resists like Avatar of Mercy, and items that help provide RR would definitely help toward build diversity.

3. You would again again be surprised to know that some of the builds you mentioned above have been posted on the forum doing crucible gladiator without mass DA hoarding. 3-3.5K max. Some of them have been posted by me as well or recently updated i.e: 2h Purifier, Aegis Purifier, Drain essence(this one was so easy),

And Ravenous earth, especially on a vitality build has no place in that list. RE is really easy if done right. Runes are also easy.

AAR is the only culprit and that is the fault of the skill itself

The example you gave that some builds failed until they got 5k DA is actually the problem. I mean, grandma could stack 5K DA + and dance around 2x reapers, poke them with a stick to death.

I concur with points 1 & 2, so I cut them from the quote for less cluttering.

The Purifiers were only recently able to topple the new Crucible challenge because of how good the buffs to Aura of Censure were. Your Drain Essence build has 3500 DA plus -700 OA shred, and when you reach a reasonable amount of DA, OA shred provides even more returns than simply stacking DA higher (this is a strategy that will be ruined if the PTH cap Zantai proposed gets implemented. I like the concept of OA shredding as a whole so I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen).

As for your examples, the Runebinder’s build posted for Gladiator also stacks DA (and also stacks Aura of Censure with Soldier passives), good Sigil builds have huge amounts of lifesteal that other build concepts won’t have access to, and I haven’t seen any 170 RE builds, so I can’t say much about that.

Getting the offenses to handle the Crucible content isn’t exactly Grandma-level simple, especially when bosses with 100% resistance to your primary type + regeneration mutator + toughened mutator come into play. To say you can dance around 2 Reapers when you have ground pools neutering your offense and stacking 3-4 bars of debuffs ready to eat your build alive is simplifying the difficulty people are having in reaching Gladiator 170.

[Superfluff]

Your Drain Essence build has 3500 DA plus -700 OA shred, and when you reach a reasonable amount of DA, OA shred provides even more returns than simply stacking DA higher (this is a strategy that will be ruined if the PTH cap Zantai proposed gets implemented. I like the concept of OA shredding as a whole so I sincerely hope this doesn’t happen). It won’t be ruined because enemy OA will also be lower and debuffs, better celestial blessings too. And if they settle for that PTH (it’s not written in stone that they will do that, they might be just feeling the pulse for now) then it only means I have the luxury to lower my DA stacking for more offense down to 3K and reach the ~3700 DA with the OA shred. It’s win

As for your examples, the Runebinder’s build posted for Gladiator also stacks DA (and also stacks Aura of Censure with Soldier passives), good Sigil builds have huge amounts of lifesteal that other build concepts won’t have access to, and I haven’t seen any 170 RE builds, so I can’t say much about that. It is not the only way to make a runebinder (I made 4pc tactician runbinder with obsidian shield-just didn’t post). And as stated above, if the nerf enemy OA and debuffs as well, you won’t need the DA stack any more. You win again

Getting the offenses to handle the Crucible content isn’t exactly Grandma-level simple, especially when bosses with 100% resistance to your primary type + regeneration mutator + toughened mutator come into play. To say you can dance around 2 Reapers when you have ground pools neutering your offense and stacking 3-4 bars of debuffs ready to eat your build alive is simplifying the difficulty people are having in reaching Gladiator 170.

Yes it is hard. The 2h purifier for example requires a certain kind of
gameplay too. You don’t do that you die. Only 4.5K DA would make my play style irrelevant in the video. See where i’m getting at? As for other builds that can’t without 4.5K DA(i know Belgo can’t and I love that build), as said above they won’t need to go there any lomger. Carte won’t take away players ability to survive and give no balance. It’s not about beating DA to a pulp but finding a middle ground for everyone.

Greeeeeeen

[veretragna]

…

Yes! I’m very surprised every time developers put another top new legendary set into the game, but make it totally not possible to survive in the Crucible.
Mentioned Belgo is a very good example.
I build the slaughter machine for Crucible using legendary jewelry and Belgo set. It sucks.
Then I try to replace some items with MIs… still sucks.
Then I despairly replace the whole set with another, stack armor, overcap resists… you know the result. Yep, it still sucks.
Defensive mechanics are not working. This mechanic forces me to do things I never wanted - either respec into S&B or stack DA.

However, waiting for 1.0.6.0 to watch things changing.

[JoV]

Before starting in order not to be misunderstood I have to state that I dont play GD any more thus dont have any hidden motives or agenda in saying this:

Leave DA the way it is but change other things. By other things I mean: -rr debuffs from mobs, fumble impaired aim debuffs from mobs (those 2 as a mayor things), CC from mobs, sudden dmg bursts from mobs (as a minor thing, less important). For player characters as a mayor thing increase dmg dealt for default attacks and default attack replacers, increase direct dmg done by skills and reduce DoT dmg.

If someone want to read my reasoning for above stated its in spoiler.

Why to leave DA as it is?
Simply, it was always like that and stacking DA is noting new, but people turned to it on regular basis and in most builds because every other reliable mechanic sept DA stacking, chained invulnerability and shield became much less reliable, if reliable at all, in highest waves of crucible. Since chaining invulnerability and shield aren’t available for every class DA stacking became somewhat meta, not to mention that is easiest to obtain.

Why people turned to stacking DA?
Imho this is the question that needs answer and it is root of the problem. Like I wrote stacking DA mechanic is not a new thing, but people dint used it earlier to this extent (same with chain invulnerability) because it simply wasn’t needed, or in other words you could reliably finish most challenging content w/o so much emphasis on defense. Extensive -rr shreds, CC, fumble impaired aim and high dmg burst hits from mobs led to this. You can easily get rr shred for -30 or even more from mob, get 50% fumble etc. To compare just try to imagine if mob would have -30% or -50% DA shred how much your stacked DA would be less protecting and less valuable?

So to overcome stacking DA issue give alternative approach a fighting chance. What do I mean by this? Well Crate spent so much time and effort in ˝balancing˝ (nerfing) skills that were to strong and were inflicting to much dmg for their taste. They ˝balanced˝ it to the point that in current crucible there isn’t a single skill, skill combo, that can give you enough dps to outdps incoming debuffs and dmg or in simple to be able to kill mobs before they are able to cripple and burst your char down. This is mistake imho, mistake with rots that go way back and mistake that led to this situation where people are turning to overwhelming defenses in order to survive.

In reducing above mentioned things (CC,-rr, etc) from mobs and buffing direct dmg output done by player offensive approach to building would have a fighting chance with defensive. Players that love fighting on the edge would have decent chance in making build that are capable of finishing crucible with more player skill and involvement needed and would be able to do it faster but slightly less reliable than players that prefer tanks and 100% safe but slower farming. That would lead to real build diversity. Build diversity based on either just offensive or defensive (which is meta now) approach to building is not at all real build diversity imho.
Also I mentioned earlier reducing DoT dmg from player and this is simply because some dmg types dont have option for DoT dmg and thus since DoT dmg is incredibly strong are gimped when compared to dmg types that have DoT on their disposal. This also would lead to healthier dmg type vise build diversity.

I know that this is not easy and would require some dedication from Crate and play testers to be done properly, but it would make GD much better as a game and imho is more than worth it.
Usual approach in fixing problem from Crate, in my experience, was based on nerfing and slapping bandages when something gets of balance, they proposed something like this even now (yes I read big Z earlier post). I just want to say that exactly that approach led to this and my advice for you guys is if you want to do something to improve this game do it properly or dont do it at all. Everyone will welcome properly done fix but in just nerfing and bandaging you will just open more future problems that will sooner or later backfire on you.

Just my, bit longer, 2 cents, have fun

[Superfluff]

Leave DA the way it is but change other things. By other things I mean: -rr debuffs from mobs, fumble impaired aim debuffs from mobs (those 2 as a mayor things), CC from mobs, sudden dmg bursts from mobs (as a minor thing, less important). For player characters as a mayor thing increase dmg dealt for default attacks and default attack replacers, increase direct dmg done by skills and reduce DoT dmg.

While the PTH thing is debatable and should be done with care (as in not overdone - aside from nerfing stalwarts etc which is fair) the above should have been done a while ago anyway. The CC stuff alone and all the fumble drains the soul out of me when playing DW

[Norzan]

Mator’s post sums up my thoughts about this: if DA stacking was never a thing, there wouldn’t be this alternate realm of diversity where a similar number of build concepts would be succeeding, you’d just be in the original, pre-Chinese build compilation situation where if you weren’t a super-defensive Soldier or a CDR-stack Arcanist, “lel as if you’re ever going to do 170.” There have been many, many new builds posted here that handle all the Campaign content beautifully that have nothing to do with DA stacking, so this is primarily a Crucible problem.

Just love you keep ignore arguments. Can you stop that?

DA stacking gives the illusion of build diversity, but every setup becomes nigh identical. Do people have fun with this? Do people have fun coming up with a new build but knowing 80% at least will be the same as the previous one because that’s what you need to do for DA stacking?

Even if Judicator rings, Peerless eye and MoD were popular, they weren’t required. A lot of builds did 150 Gladiator with none of those items. But to do 170 Gladiator you need to stuff your character with Stalwart, Protection and Readiness in pretty much all of the jewelry. Slap Runebound Topaz in all jewelry and Ugdenbog Leather on every possible armor piece. Have nearly the same devotion route with Wolverine and Solemn Watcher.

This is not promoting build diversity, this is cancer. To me, both Crucible and DA stacking are the problem.

[toilagamer852]

DISCLAIMER: I SUPPORT MODERATE NERF ON DA META, NOT NERFING TO THE GROUND. ANYONE TRYING TO AGUE WITH ME ABOUT DA META SHOULD READ THIS FIRST.

You seem very driven with your opinion of people who post end game builds so there is no use trying to change your mind.

No I don’t, I posted some builds myself. I wouldn’t be so stupid to involve myself. My opinion is on the people who think they are superior, that the whole forum (including the dev) should follow their ideas (because they know more, why not?:rolleyes:). This is the definition of elitism. Most of the time, this is constructive because they are the elite, they indeed know more and they give better advice. I appreciate that. However, it seems to me in this thread that SOME start to exploit this and deem anything not created by them, or can harm their superiority about gameplay, invalid. In real life or in game, it’s all the same: Elite vs commoner conflict.

Posting builds is not charity work really (unless one takes the time to make a massive guide, some do that)

No one says it is. But you know what, people in this world, in real life or in game, can be divided into 2 categories: for benefit or for recognition (or both). In this forum, anyone can read post for free, so it is clearly recognition that people are looking for. So of course it is not charity work.

again the DA thing dilutes overall build identity in crucible

No it doesn’t. It dilutes the defensive options for all builds, creating a universal formula to survive. However, survival is just one aspect of the game. It is somewhat condescending to claim such things as DA meta diluting overall diversity. As if a variety of offensive gameplays is not a concern at all in this game. Many people want this defensive backbone (aka DA meta) because they want to see how different offensive options based on class combination and skill investment work. To weaken this backbone (aka nerf moderately) is to make people more conscious of their choices, thus being more careful to optimize their build further. This will indeed enhance overall diversity even further. However, to destroy this backbone (aka nerf to the ground), people are again forced to play CDR, DoT, S&B. This makes some certain people here feel happy I guess? More build diversity now they claim? LOL. What about facetank, what about DW no CDR no DoT builds? LOL!!!

What jealousy?

There is no jealousy. Nearly nobody cares if somebody clears Crucible. It´s a modable game, so what?

Which is why I put it at 20% and not 80%. If no jealousy then why cares? Because people want to be constructive, really? I admit DA meta right now is somewhat unfair to creative people, so just nerf it moderately. But when some meta produces unfair advantage over what you have been working on, you don’t feel jealous and want to tear it down? Wow, WHAT A SAINT!!! I played DA meta build myself, I got a bit bored, I want a nerf so that people have more room for creativity. Yet there are some people who demand it to be nerfed to the ground. WOW, no jealousy!!!

When it comes down to equipping 3-6x Stalwart of whatever and following a predefined DA-devotion route, I’m not interested in crucible 170 at all.

Which is why I proposed to nerf the effect of DA so it won’t be that big of a deal (say PTH can’t be lower than 20% even at 6k DA), or turn Stalwart into a green prefix, etc…

Btw: When I’m looking at these forums and seeing all the help those elitists provide to players, not only concerning their own builds but also build ideas lesser experienced players come up with I wonder how you get that elitist impression in the first place.

I get this impression from this thread, and not from any other guides. Read the 1st few pages, some claims that these elitist opinions are all that matter. The rest may as well be ignored.

Same as many here, I opt for a middle ground option to both nerfing DA meta and nerfing W150-170 so that more builds are viable W170. But is that all? Don’t tell me CDR, DoT builds are fine. If DA meta is nerfed, may as well nerfed these builds. Builds that require a certain playstyle are ways worse than builds that require a certain gear setup. The latter can be achieved by literally anyone, as long as they make an effort to invest time to farm for gears, while the former is not available to all. If anyone disagree on this then I may as well say “SIR, you are such an obvious elitist.” After you nerf W170 and DA meta but leaving alone other builds, all can play W170, but those pre-DA meta builds are the kings again, being 20-30% better in clear time compared with the rest. FAIR ENOUGH?

[Rhylthar]

Which is why I put it at 20% and not 80%. If no jealousy then why cares? Because people want to be constructive, really? I admit DA meta right now is somewhat unfair to creative people, so just nerf it moderately. But when some meta produces unfair advantage over what you have been working on, you don’t feel jealous and want to tear it down? Wow, WHAT A SAINT!!! I played DA meta build myself, I got a bit bored, I want a nerf so that people have more room for creativity. Yet there are some people who demand it to be nerfed to the ground. WOW, no jealousy!!!

No need to scream, Cpt. Caps.

Unfair advantage? Only “lol”. Nothing “unfair” with this, if I want to beat Crucible I just post any build with enough DA. Did you see my Q&D-made Trickster posted here? I (with some advices later) have not done anything with this build other than stacking DA. Changing Devotions to get DA. Put on 6 Greens to get…DA.

So…why the heck should I be jealous?

[Superfluff]

Don’t tell me CDR, DoT builds are fine.

Can be. I posted one with 2.8 K OA.

On the elitism thing i can’t say anymore as i’m tired and the whole thing is wearing me down lol.

Whatever, i’m just curious to see what crate comes up with. I’ve always opted for measured nerfs and balance, and like you screamed bloody murder when I saw weird nerfs (still would). Let’s just see what happens

[Zantai]

Before starting in order not to be misunderstood I have to state that I dont play GD any more thus dont have any hidden motives or agenda in saying this:

Leave DA the way it is but change other things. By other things I mean: -rr debuffs from mobs, fumble impaired aim debuffs from mobs (those 2 as a mayor things), CC from mobs, sudden dmg bursts from mobs (as a minor thing, less important). For player characters as a mayor thing increase dmg dealt for default attacks and default attack replacers, increase direct dmg done by skills and reduce DoT dmg.

Usual approach in fixing problem from Crate, in my experience, was based on nerfing and slapping bandages when something gets of balance, they proposed something like this even now (yes I read big Z earlier post). I just want to say that exactly that approach led to this and my advice for you guys is if you want to do something to improve this game do it properly or dont do it at all. Everyone will welcome properly done fix but in just nerfing and bandaging you will just open more future problems that will sooner or later backfire on you.

The nerfs and bandages thing is a dead horse that has been beaten to a pulp, so I’m not even gonna get into that…

I understand why the reaction here is the way it is, since this happens every time there is a major shift. I’m not going to pretend like we never make mistakes, but I dare say vast majority of things we do have had a positive effect on the game as a whole, so maybe toss us a bone? People are acting like we said we’re capping DA stacking (which frankly should have happened a long time ago)…and doing nothing else.

So in the interest of alleviating the misconceptions and perhaps putting a stop to the circular debate happening here, here is a preview of where things are right now in terms of changes coming to the Crucible and the game in general that you may find relevant to this topic. Please be aware that things are still subject to change and numbers may still change, but this should give you a general idea of what’s to come:

[Crucible]

• Adjusted number of non-boss enemies spawned in the 151-170 range.
• Reduced effectiveness of % Physical Resist Reduction debuffs applied by Ashes of Malmouth enemies.
• With a few exceptions, reduced the effectiveness of Fumble effects applied by monsters in the Crucible by upwards of 50%.
• Increased monster penalty to Crowd Control Effects by an additional 15% (to 40%). Previously, monster crowd control effect duration was reduced by 25%. (This is a buff to players)
• Nemesis boss damage reduced by 4% for base game Nemesis bosses and 7% for Ashes of Malmouth Nemesis Bosses.
• Significantly increased the attack rate of all Beacons.
• Deathchill Beacon now also reduces enemy Offensive Ability for 5s with its attacks. The potency of this effect increases with upgrades.
• Inferno Beacon now also reduces enemy % Damage for 5s with its basic attack. Previously only the Fire Storm reduced damage. The potency of this effect increases with upgrades.
• Stormcaller Beacon’s Defensive Ability and Total Resist Reduction effects now last 5s, up from 3s. Increased the potency of the Resist Reduction effect to 25/30/33 from 20/25/30.
• Stonewall Banner now also increases Defensive Ability by 50 (100 when fully upgraded).
• Vanguard Banner now also increases Offensive Ability by 50 (100 when fully upgraded). Increased the % All Speed granted by the Frenzy buff to 35%, up from 20%.
• Improved effectiveness of all Celestial Blessings for pets to match the bonuses the blessings grant for players.
• Blessing of Ulo now also boosts resistances against all damage types by 33% (8% to Physical).
• Empyrion’s Guidance now increases Health by 80%, up from 60%
• Might of Amatok now modifies damage by 35%, up from 30%, and is more effective for pets by applying a damage modifier instead of the % All damage bonus pets received. This will no longer appear in the character sheet, but is much more potent.
• Ulzuin’s Pact now also boosts Offensive and Defensive Ability by 30 + 4% and reduces Skill Energy Costs by 25%, up from 20%.

[Game]

• The Probability to Hit Formula has been adjusted. It is now capped at a minimum of 60%, meaning that excessively high Defensive Ability values can no longer reduce an opponent’s chance to hit below 60%. This change applies to both monsters and players, but will have little impact outside of the high-end gameplay in the hardest waves of the Crucible.
• Adjusted Boss Resistance distribution. A disproportionate number of bosses had baseline resistances to Physical and Pierce damage compared to other damage types. Several of those instances have been adjusted in favor of diversifying the damage bosses are resistant to.

[Itemization]

• Magic Prefix - Stalwart: reduced % Defensive Ability to 5% for accessories, 3% for armor (pre-expansion values)
• Rare Prefix - Assassin: reduced % Defensive Ability to 3%
• Rare Prefix - Commando: reduced % Defensive Ability to 3%
• Rare Prefix - Overseer: reduced % Defensive Ability to 3%
• Rare Prefix - Tactician: reduced % Defensive Ability to 3%
• Rare Prefix - Vindicator: reduced % Defensive Ability to 3%

[Class & Skills]
Devotion

• Time Dilation: increased cooldown by 1s

Arcanist

• Mirror of Ereoctes: duration now partially scales with rank, starting at 2s and scaling up to its original values of 3s by rank 6

[Ptirodaktill]

Same as many here, I opt for a middle ground option to both nerfing DA meta and nerfing W150-170 so that more builds are viable W170. But is that all? Don’t tell me CDR, DoT builds are fine. If DA meta is nerfed, may as well nerfed these builds. Builds that require a certain playstyle are ways worse than builds that require a certain gear setup. The latter can be achieved by literally anyone, as long as they make an effort to invest time to farm for gears, while the former is not available to all. If anyone disagree on this then I may as well say “SIR, you are such an obvious elitist.” After you nerf W170 and DA meta but leaving alone other builds, all can play W170, but those pre-DA meta builds are the kings again, being 20-30% better in clear time compared with the rest. FAIR ENOUGH?

Its not about nerfing its about fixing. DA stacking is broken due to quadro-dipping and increasing returns. Playing gladiator with 5K+ DA is as good as playing aspirant w/o abusing it. It does not promote any diversity, it turn everyone abusing it intro unbreakable face-tanks.

[Superfluff]

Blessing of Ulo now also boosts resistances against all damage types by 33% (8% to Physical).
Empyrion’s Guidance now increases Health by 80%, up from 60%
Might of Amatok now modifies damage by 35%, up from 30%, and is more effective for pets by applying a damage modifier instead of the % All damage bonus pets received. This will no longer appear in the character sheet, but is much more potent.
Ulzuin’s Pact now also boosts Offensive and Defensive Ability by 30 + 4% and reduces Skill Energy Costs by 25%, up from 20%.

…oh my:)…Ulo is a beast

This alone beats a lot of the rr stacking

[Ptirodaktill]

…oh my:)…Ulo is a beast

This alone beats a lot of the rr stacking

I wonder if there would be some other changes, like Reaper nerf :hmhm:

MB its time to discuss health regen ? =)

[Superfluff]

I wonder if there would be some other changes, like Reaper nerf :hmhm:

MB its time to discuss health regen ? =)

7% nerf, and rr nerf

[x1x1x1x2]

As for your examples, the Runebinder’s build posted for Gladiator also stacks DA (and also stacks Aura of Censure with Soldier passives), good Sigil builds have huge amounts of lifesteal that other build concepts won’t have access to, and I haven’t seen any 170 RE builds, so I can’t say much about that.

Won’t be talking about the other things cause I need sleep but I just wanna point this out. I assume the runebinder build you’re talking about is the one I posted (4k DA, censure and soldier passives). But that one isn’t even a rune build. Only 1pt hagarrad with overcapped biting cold for DA shred. The other runebinder I had, though, a rune build, only had 3.4k da, so rune builds don’t really need that DA stacking.

[Ptirodaktill]

7% nerf, and rr nerf

That’s a global nerf , but what about Raepaer itself? He has the highest burst potential in the game and can tear any low-armor character in few seconds.

[Autentist]

Oh wow, this is much better, than was before, Big Z.

That’s a global nerf , but what about Raepaer itself? He has the highest burst potential in the game and can tear any low-armor character in few seconds.

Does he still have stackable RR? If yes, it needs to go permanently. It can shred even a Hybrid full Tank Retal to pieces.