[DAIL] Input, Mastery Condition

Some masteries are bugged, incomplete, or seem unnecessary . I want the next release of DAIL, which I have dubbed 2.0, to be visually polished, bug free, er bug-less, or less buggy…and all content “functional.”

After that (2.1?), class issues will be addressed. I would like to see the Arlequin finished. Asylum should have the TQ masteries updated. And classes that are op, or have skills that are op, may be marked for balancing.

This is not a thread about what should go or what should stay. Davood has already expressed everything in DAIL will stay in DAIL. I want input on what you like, what you don’t like, about the current masteries. What you play, what you would never play. Or just air out any grievances you have; I’ll be your buddy.

Personally I think any mod that has agreed to be in DAIL should be put in as is, when it comes to masteries anyways. Modders have enough to deal with figuring out if an issue is in their mod or DAIL, having the mastery be actually different (and not necessarily with their input) will only make people more hesitant about DAIL integration, not to mention the ethical concerns I have about editing others work in that manner.

Of course, if the modder is okay with it then great!

In any DAIL thread I start I get a lot of static about masteries. Here’s your dumping ground.

Personally as the developer for Zenith I’m annoyed with the OP-ness of Fangshi/Ranger. I get a lot of input for my masteries saying that they’re OP IF paired with one of those two masteries, making it quite difficult - albeit not impossible - to narrow down what is or is not fundamentally broken with something I personally developed.


Having said that, I actually love some of the mechanics of the skills present in the masteries themselves. Good design all around. :slight_smile:

Fangshi is definitely crazy due to the amount of CDR it can get you. Haven’t done enough Ranger to really see its OPness, but I don’t enjoy ranged that much in GD.

I’ve played a lot of DAIL, but tended to steer clear of many of the added masteries for three reasons,

  1. Little gear support. It’s pretty tough to get +skills in a sensible way and basically impossible to get the final ultimate rank.

  2. Some skills/masteries are just not balanced similarly to the vanilla classes. Some are very overpowered, some are very lacking.

  3. (Apologies in advance, I promise I’m not trolling) The skill descriptions and texts are often awful. Is that skill a passive? Is that a WPS? Can I add a Celestial Power to it? That skill looks like it should be exclusive, but I’m not sure! (it’s worse than the vanilla game because at least there’s a lot of information around for vanilla masteries, not so for mods).

I’d prefer to see 20 versions of Necromancer in the mod if they didn’t fail on any of those three points, rather than 20 very different masteries that were half finished, confusing and generally overpowered.

I’d also like to see Cornucopia class changes merged, even while they continue to experiment around from build to build with the likes of Cadence or whatever.

Use the sets from DGA, that’s +6 all skills right there. You can get an amulet component with +2/+2 or +4 to skills.

Happens when you’re combining mods from multiple authors with different design/balance goals.

See response to #2. Though I don’t think I’ve seen anything be wrongly labeled when it comes to Exclusive. Celestial Powers should have no issues, the one thing you have to look out for is skills that have one built-in on the base skill, can’t replace the one they already have in that instance.

I do think one of the mods that adjusts the base masteries wouldn’t be a bad idea just to mix things up a bit, whether Cornucopia or Darkest Dawn. It’s too bad the guy making Deviant Dawn disappeared, he had some cool looking stuff in the works.

To my knowledge some degree of Cornucopia classes are in DAIL. I’m not sure whether they’ve kept up with hotfixes and the like, but I’m pretty sure DAIL has at least some partial Cornucopia inclusion.

Please, do not touch Grim Quest masteries. If you are worried about ‘balance’, take them out and put something else in. But to edit something I am currently working on and make two versions of the same thing can potentially cause issues with people reporting false bugs to either party. Not to mention any issues that would arise when editing someone else’s hard work… seeing someone even consider that option while I’m still here is making me second guess even give the ‘ok’ to DAIL, as if all the bitching wasn’t enough already.

This is the exact issue I was talking about with editing other peoples’ work in my first post. Glad that I wasn’t off-base as to how a mod author would react.

Hm, fair points above. I will, myself, welcome changes to Zenith content if anyone should so choose, provided that there will exist some record stating what the changes are. That way I could have some kind of a basis for future reports I get from the merger.

I’ve used the DGA sets and amulet components - it works, but I think that’s more about the “sensible” thing. The solution to +skills for every non-vanilla class being the same set isn’t thrilling! (and while it is my issue rather than DAIL’s, I tend to avoid the DGA sets at this point. Fun for a while, not for the long run).

DGA aside, I suppose I think about it more from the perspective of “what if” there was a mastery that had gear, well balanced skills and felt polished, even down to the skill text. I’d play that in a heartbeat. Certainly sooner than things that seem very much like WIP.

I’m not bitching here. I love DAIL and many of the added masteries are really cool / fun. But in an ideal world… so I figured I’d say something, rather than nothing.

The big issue with having things like epics/legendaries/affixes to support the new masteries is that it bloats the loot tables a ton and makes it difficult to get what you want, this very issue was brought up in Grimarillion.

I’m very looking forward to the next version of DGA, it will be deprecating the current sets in favor of a variety of ones along with some sort of rune(word) system. It might address some of the gear issues you have.

By me :slight_smile: It’s a beautifully annoying issue!

I think DGA has been one of the more promising mods floating around since I came back to GD - I’m always glad to see it getting work / updates. Still, I’d like to see more gearing options outside of it for the additional masteries. Of course, it ain’t easy!

well i’m sorry to tell you this but this is just my opinion, Grim Quest masteries take 35% yes almost half of the DAIL Class isn’t it’s little too much ? it should be cool to every mod have the same % of content & class do be into dail and for class that their skill stop to lvl 32 i don’t think it’s a great idea to keep them.
they take too much place, for not so much skill & contents
i know titan quest class have only lvl 32 skill so you won’t add more into the class but so many class have so much more skill, with original content and new thing to show us well if you guy want to play titan quest class just go play it but don’t take all this masteries slot for that…
i’am not saying the mod is bad or something, it just depends of what you like and titan quest is a good game but it’s just realist the place taken for content given is poor and i prefer to see original content than a copy of another game but again copy class of another game a little can be cool or fun but again the mod take too much place for what is it one or two class that came from another game is cool but just not almost a half of our class…

You don’t like them don’t play them. It’s that simple. It was up to davood to put them in. You’ve already seen his response, deal with it.

Edited the OP. I made the comment before reading your updated GQ post. It goes back to the complaints I read and was wanting to make those classes more attractive.

I’m just fishing for thoughts and opinions with this thread. Ethics and execution are between DAIL and other devs. I’m not going to crap on someone else’s work.

I edited the OP, removing suggestion that the GQ masteries were going to be modified.

I want these mods to play together in the modified environment and the overall package enjoyable. This may require some modifications.

Noob biscuit is still new to all of this so I apologize if feet get stepped on.

I think the major issue is only one: a lot of (praised) work has been done already and many people are counting on it and future support. There’s no way that a thing like that can be scrapped in a day because someone doesn’t feel he likes it.

So, i am pretty sure that there won’t be any issue about this - at last for the moment.

Now, onto masteries.

DAIL is awesome because it has lots of them. Balanced or not, fun or not, they’re in the mod and people have charcaters with them. They cannot be removed without breaking things out.

But they can be worked on. And obviuosly this requires first of all the approval of the Author of the mod which is the one who did the work and deserves repsect for that.
After that, there can be collaboration - if wanted and needed.

Taking Grim Quest as an example - the masteries are well done and working. The only real issue i see with them is that they were designed for another game and they lack the identity some other ones have; the classes are a little bare-bone for the most part.

If ASYLUM101 is sharing this point of view he can decide to work upon those classes (maybe in collaboration with DAIL devs) and spice them up with additional skill trees or modifiers, or giving them a more specific identity with different names or themes (poison-based or things like that), but all of this but come from him.

He can decide that classes are fine as is; they won’t be touched nor removed because of this.

The best thing of a mod like DAIL is that different stuff from different authors collides and you can see the difference in mindset behind the single mods. Making them work together is a considerable effort that requires support from every part (mod authors, DAIl devs and players).

Thank you ColdKil or clarifying that. Think of me as Donald Trump and ColdKil is a campaign manager (please don’t turn this into a political debate :P).

Davood is the boss.
Kathanious is the hot-headed understudy stirring the pot.
Coldkil is the wise old man in the back with a staff ready to pop me on the head.

I have ideas, some needing community input, for the future of DAIL. All the while staying within Davoods original design. This is a trial by fire and the excuse “being new at this” only goes only so far. I’m not trying to make enemies or kick people in the face. I apologize in advanced for situations where it seems like that.

Mastery changes, if any, won’t happen until DAIL 2.1. And that is after the current masteries are working(at least close to as intended). I’m just looking for feed back right now.

Davood says: