[DAIL] Input, Mastery Condition

Speaking about current masteries, I think that Cenobite feels kind of weak in comparison to other masteries, at least in the beginning. It’s passive AOE is too weak to deal with all those hordes of enemies that keep spawning in Grimmest [S]. And Immolation consumes too much health to be useful in early game. Cenobite needs to be buffed a bit, so it’s not as difficult in low levels as it is now.

So why not tell cftx, the mod author, that in his thread?

That’s why. I’m not sure if his mod is originally designed for Grimmest, so this problem isn’t probably as relevant in Vanilla mob spawning system as in Grimmest.

Skills shouldn’t have to be redesigned for Grimmest. The purpose of Grimmest is to give an additional challenge by multiplying the enemies you have to fight. This usually only challenges a player for the first 10 levels, past that it becomes trivial except for only a few moments.

Look at the Grim Dawn masteries for prime examples.

While true, there are mechanical things to consider for skills that scale based on enemy count. In Zenith, for instance, the Terror Knight’s Blood Siphon is tremendously stronger when there’s more enemies for it to apply to. The Champion’s Litany of Blades, Divinity, and Aetherstorm trigger more frequently (albeit on a cooldown) in the presence of more enemies (therefore meaning more incoming attacks).

I don’t know much about other masteries, but I can’t imagine I’m the only one developing such mastery-based mechanisms.

Vanilla density is still an install option. And I probably overstepped my bounds asking this type of question.

I’m on a fence here. Snap to the strictest meaning of compilation and leave mods as is (which is probably the right thing to do). Or modify to "fit"in DAIL. That’s why we are having this conversation. Again I apologize if I implied earlier that it was going to happen with or without dev permission.

I am relying on the vets and noobs alike to check me on this. Asylum made his stance clear and I hate that it had to be in public like this.

It’s not my work, it’s partly Davood’s work, and a lot of “others” work. I lost respect of that for a moment.

Asylum be like:

Well, yeah, that’s true. It gets quite easy since level 14 when epics are going in. But still, in comparison to Terror Knight and it’s fantastic Blood Siphon, Cenobite feels a bit off in the very beginning and might seem for new players to be too weak.

the beauty of this thread. is that there is some real discussion going on.

anyways here is what i did and why. take it how you like.

  1. i wanted to merge everything as-is and just work on fixing bugs when they popped up - while trying VERY hard to play nice with the modders who’s work i borrowed. it’s important that they have a say in how their mod is used.

  2. i found it easier to just ignore people who complained about balance. and just blame the mod creators. that way i could avoid all the hassle of trying to fix the balance. while keeping the modders happy by not fiddling with their art/design vision (Except with permission.)

  3. nobody is getting paid so . at the end of the day. this is whatever we agree it is and are willing to put into it.

  4. I sincercely appreciate the work that everyone has put in and i really am getting excited to see actual contribution towards DAIL itself and not just the Borg-assimilation of mods. Thank you Kathanious for taking up teh torch.

  5. i will stir from my worship of Malbolge occasionally to help out but im busy. really busy. Grim dawn remains as my all time favourite ARPG.

i was just giving my opinion about it, as it has been requested
i was attempting a better answer than “If you don’t like go away” but nevermind. :slight_smile:

And i didn’t say i don’t like it or the mod is bad i just say almost the half of masteries is taken by your mod and yes it’s not your fault that sure but it’s a lot due to the fact we’re limited to 30 masteries and it would be cool for other mod author who want to have their class into the mod to give approximately the same amount of place that all.

If nothing change no worry and yes i read the answer he given, and it seem i’m not the only one to be a little disapointed about this answer given but of course i can understand his reason, whatever they are, it’s just for saying what i have to say with respect and mutual understanding.

It was decided on a first come, first serve basis. To go back on his word and then shun the people who are not so vocal and actually enjoying those masteries would be disrespectful and as he has mentioned before, disastrous to character saves that use those masteries.

Giving your opinion on something that has been repeated several times is not going to change anything. Don’t pretend like you didn’t know Davoods stance on the matter, as he has explicitly stated to you and others for months now about this.

Personally, I couldn’t care less if my masteries were removed. They still exist standalone, and in grimarillion. But it’s not up to me, so again, you just have to put up with it until the cap is expanded.

Methinks more people need to learn the mod tools and make their own twist on things.

Grim dawn is literally designed for 50 class levels. If a class feels that it is feature complete without 50 class levels and skills to fill them in it has no place in a Grim Dawn compilation. It is for a completely different set of assumptions and shouldn’t be in this compilation. If a mod is broken and has shown no progress in 2 months the mod has been abandoned and has no place in a compilation trying to be bug free. It isn’t the compilation authors job to correct these issues.

The first come first serve basis was based on the idea that they were going to complete the work and actually create a mod that fit into the Grim Dawn world balance, not go half way and say they are done.

Yep, this is getting a bit too far.

P.S Kath, did you check your inbox? I’ve got a question for you there. If you do not want to asnwer it, say so. Please?

Well this thread was for this kind of feedback; lets get it all out. Whether anything becomes of it, is up to the devs.

The 30 cap is hard coded and I have been thinking of a way to implement install options. But that is on the wish list post DAIL 2.0. Hopefully Crate has a fix by then.

So, has anyone tried to contact them and tell them about the problem? It’d be quite strange to sit and wait until devs come up with the idea themselves, if they don’t even know about it yet. I mean, if no one contacted them, then there is probably no way they’ll be trying to fix it.

I believe it has been. I will double check though, because…ya, we might be waiting a while in they don’t know.

I really wish some of the non-GQ masteries worked with staff and spear weapons if we’re going to have them in DAIL. Though with their drop rates maybe it’s okay, because not many GQ masteries use them anyways as well.

We need to check if spears and staffs are includes as stand alone weapon types or just fall into the 2hand type.

Another question related to masteries for you all and specific for DAIL: should skills/masteries be balanced with Vanilla in mind and Grimmest as a difficulty increase or with Grimmer/Grimmest as baseline and basically ingoring Vanilla?

I’ll aslo share my opinion: i think that balancing for Grimmer/Grimmest would more that occasionally end with OP stuff in Vanilla. I’d stick with first option.