… did my point get completely glossed over ? sometimes i have a hard time judging if i’m being misunderstood, or ignored, both are kinda an “upset” for me tho in varying degrees, as it seems to imply i’m not communicating proper
so let me try again
in the terms of “optimization” or maximizing potential dmg, the conversion loss on amulet? vs seals of void is not comparable or a 1:1; not even if the flat dmg amounts are similar
the reason is simple, seals of voids grant you a (strong) wps sorta as “compensation” for that slight dmg loss
the amulet does not do that, it grants you “nothing” in return (assuming all the other stats/effects of the amulet or potential set isn’t actually weighted “against” that conversion)
that is not only different in terms of dmg gain/“lost” dmg, it’s quite significant in terms of difference and amount of bonus gains
ie, you can’t just take the flat phys dmg apart/on its own, since the component has a sum as a whole
Yes, I get what you are saying - but it doesn’t have anything to do with my point. I think you are getting hung up on this.
As I mentioned the seals are the best fit whether fire or chaos. The conversion is minor and distracting but is a loss for the for the pure fire build, because it would be better if they were phys->fire
However about the same amount can be gained from the amulet conversion - so the loss gain/for either is about the same.
If 100% chaos->fire and the ammy gets some %fire damage. vs 100% fire->chaos
no, because again, and that was my original comment: the dmg “loss” is negligible, so it’s inconsequential when gaining the wps: which then makes it incomparable to the ammy scenario
this is irrelevant as it would literally apply to anything; if seals of skies converted to cold they would be better for cold builds, if seals of night didn’t have phys conversion they’d be better for pierce builds etc
that doesnt matter,
again, no, it is not a 1:1 comparison, “because the components offer you wps as compensation for that phys dmg loss, which more than makes up for the loss”
the amulet does no such thing, thus is purely a dmg loss
(but that’s assuming the conversion would even be fire->chaos at all ofc or not just be non-existent instead)
there is a huge distinction being totally glossed over
and as my original comment implied, to the original remark, is completely not related/“there is no phys dmg loss” really
Yes but the whole next thing discussion was about this trival flat amount on the ammy conversion and how little it impacts the overall set performance.
Vs how big it could be if used in some fire conversion idea.
which again, is not the same
and as i pointed out several times, was A not the original comment, and even if we included it to be; still would not be related because the difference is so drastically significantly hugely apart in effects “because one offers you compensation the other offers you nothing”
Now I’m confused. Idon’t get your point at all now. What are you trying to say?
Pure fire benefits from the ammy. Chaos does not.
Chaos benefits from the weapon/component conversions. Fire does not.
The amount is small and not significant to either.
Therefore changing the conversion on the ammy is not terribly worthwhile, unless it’s important for some other vit->chaos build.
And it by no means justifies the fire portion of the set being considered irrelevant.
one is 0 dmg loss in both scenarios (seals of voids)
the others is a dmg loss in either scenarios (necklace)
there is no comparison of relevance there there
this comment (which is a standalone remark imo), if we take it as its own statement “for what it says”,
if we do take it as part of the amulet take/comparing it to amulet conversion dmg loss, then it’s still incorrect and irrelevant and unrelated
simply because of the 2 being so different
again void giving you strong dmg (wps) as compensation for phys dmg loss
amulet giving you 0 in return for converted dmg loss
there is in no way those 2 are comparable or relevant to eachother even if we include them in the same dmg conversion loss for fire strike builds; because one offers you wps, the other offers you 0
ones is loss/has no compensation
the other offers compensation, resulting in a gain “despite the initial loss”
it does!, big fn time, that’s again the point; the compensation is bigger than the tradeoff
which is again irrelevant to everything, because it would apply to anything and i just pointed that out with seals of skies and seals of night exampels
literally is, because it’s what makes up the difference, and is exactly what matters when that compensation is there to make up a loss
you can not just take parts of something that is significant portion of the whole effect; much less when you’re specifically making this about fire strike and even more so about non inquis fire strike
again no, it’s irrelvant
you are arguing the phys conversion is bad for fire strike
i’m saying it’s inconsequential; because the tradeoff makes it (more) than worth it
this is a significant difference
you are saying there is a loss, then comparing it to amulet later
i’m saying there is no loss because the gain is bigger, thus it doesn’t matter “for fire fire strike” that the phys conversion is to chaos; because that loss is inconsequential - because there is a (much) bigger gain as compensation
^and if we then include the amulet comparison it’s still wrong because amulet has no such compensation
you’re then trying to take the wps out of the equation, to illustrate it’s bad; which is incorrect/“you can’t do that”, because it’s literalyl what makes it good, and what makes the tradeoffbetter
so yes, your statement is wrong
because it does very much help for fire builds since there is a wps to compensate for the phys conversion
the amulet conversion however does 0 to help nor compensate for chaos builds
you are clearly implying the conversion is somehow bad for fire builds on seal of void “which is bad since it’s the best component for fire strike”; when that conversion is totally negligible for fire fire strike builds “because of that very wps it grants as compensation”
after pointing that out you then make it about/in comparison to amulet
and my point, as repeated 8x now?; is that in both cases, your statement is not apt
because “taking your comment at face value/as is; the conversion is not a loss for fire builds because the wps exists”
taking in comparison to the amulet later the loss not comparable because amulet offers 0 compensation “unlike the wps”
Sometimes things are said in a figurative manner. I suppose I should avoid this in future. I suppose I thought the conversation flow had more clarity than it did, considering the topic was the ammy.
you can take that part out, it doesn’t make your statement anymore correct
when you’re trying to argue the phys dmg is a loss; when there is a wps as compensation
that’s the entire point
it’s a tradeoff, not a loss
the amulet is a pure loss “if you want to then try make that comparison”
one is a straight up nothing gained
the other is a i give up a little to get a lot, (+that little you give up is then coincidentally basically nothing)
for fire builds, the conversion doesn’t matter, because wps compensation
for chaos builds, the conversion “does” matter, since we get nothing in return (but it’s also based on the assumption the conversion would even be there at all, which could be argued is a wrong assumption to begin with if going down that route)
You are stuck on all the extras. My point was that if all the extras were there, then in a better world for fire, phy-> fire would be there.
Yes, everything is about compromise. As is the ammy. And the whole point here is about not being happy with the ammy compromise…which means we are actually talking about theoreticals.
Kudos to Zantai for moving this thread, though. I forgot how OT this was going.
i’m not stuck on teh “extras”, i’m stuck in the real world
and as i’ve mentioned multiple times, you can’t jsut cut parts out of a whole and ignore the wps, and you can’t just magically say “but if ideal then this and that”; because it applies to everything, and you would just end up in spiral with the same argument suddenly being chaos builds being screwed out of phys dmg loss, or cold firestrike, it’s imaginary scenarios that has 0 application to the actual function discussed and isn’t applicable in any way
the amulet is not a compromise tho
^which is what made your then later initial comparison wrong too
it’s a straight up nothing gained conversion, there is no tradeoff, no compensation, no compromise; it’s a loss
(and it’s an actual loss because it will conflict with real fire-chaos conversion if a build uses the amulet and still goes for it/conversion)
which is again, literally, what makes the comparison not applicable, not a 1:1 comparable, etc
