I wish Grimtools explained/defined what this is with a simple mouse-over or by clicking on it. What the hell is a Chain attack?
1 Like
A chain lightning for 3 targets? I recall GT using in-game skill names some time ago (Crate had a Nerf attack), but nowadays every skill is just plainly named for what it does.
1 Like
A couple of observations, while doing this challenge after almost a 6 year break. And to make this is a proper comparison, as before, it’s SSF HC, Veteran. One thing is for sure, mobs hit harder despite a lot of damage optimization over the years. They also seem to take longer to kill. I guess Veteran was buffed to make it closer to Elite in terms of difficulty. On the other hand farming mats, blueprints, MI’s is A LOT easier. This means much better chances of crafting good affixes, or gambling for the right legendaries and so on. As for leveling options, not much has changed. Very few choices up to level 35. Can’t do pets till 25 and even then, the crab is basically the only option. Farming level 25 totems in hopes of getting the blightshard amulet is possible but not very realistic. Problem is, even if you could get the harbinger, crab and scourge, there’s no way to get their toughness up to prevent from dying even to trash mobs. So pets are only feasible late game level 60+ when you reach the tree of life and get the dirge relic.
It seems like retal with some acid / elemental side dps is the only way to level. Will see, there’s a ton of stuff to test still.
1 Like
normal/vetaran was buffed a little up on health/dmg back around/after 1.2, not so much to make it closer to elite but to compensate for years of player powercreep
(some of us had whined that veteran had gotten way way too easy over time, while not feeling like starting as lvl 1 on Ult slog 
)
one of those powercreep changes has also been a decent increase in base dmg on item granted skills like fire blast or ice spike etc now
which should probably aid a bit in no class challenges too 
(besides other component skill function changes very recently like whetstone/behead etc)
Drops were changed so there’d be less magick drops and more rare drops but then with fewer compared to before. Some MIs got straight up changed 100% drop rate compensation if ex a boss only had 1 MI in pool like Gollus.
Can’t really say for certain what’s going on with the "less magick/more rare affix but then fewer drops"effect since personal experience/observation seems like it’s kinda skewed, where some MIs do indeed drop less frequent, but then more with rare affixes, but other MIs just drop in droves, like some still has the old frequency drop rates attached and only some got the reduced frequency applied (or just wild RNG ofc)
Legendary MI drops were changed so many/most are now Ult exclusive for their lvl 94 version
Items now also have some form of affix bias, so a fire dmg weapon/ring/armour is more likely to drop with fire dmg affixes. Some items remain neutral if they have no base dmg (nemesis shoulder/legs/class belts etc)
the addition Totems have made general blueprints a ton easier, aside from just freebie loot ofc
Some material drops have been increased several times seals/blooms/eyes specially, treasure troves now guaranteed spit out 2 mats, so now we’re basically swimming in mats without shared stash/ssf is simpler.
Lots of component and relic crafting cost have also drastically changed to either be simpler (not requiring 15 relics to craft a lvl 90 relic) or just much cheaper base cost (1-3 ch’thonic seal instead of 12 etc)
With the change in magick/rare item drops also has come a change in money distribution where we get more raw money so as needing to sell/loot less trash items.
(tho technically you still do get a lil bit extra pocket money if bothering to loot every common green)
I don’t remember if the sell formula also outright changed so items sell for even less on Normal (capped at 2k now) or if that was actually always a thing, seems like direct sell formula isn’t that much different on Ult, atleast greens still selling for over 3k there
Infamy gains has also been increased for certain factions like Kymon/vigil so it’s now faster to reach Nemesis state with (iirc Cronley gang was unaffected by this so far)
And all Nemesis spawn has been made dynamic (be careful when nemesis state on HC classless i guess then 
)
2 Likes
Makes sense. This run, so far, I’ve tested every component up to level 35. Greater fireblast is still the only option just like it used to be. I mean you can use ice spike, behead etc, but they just don’t have the same overall level of performance, given how hard it is to manage energy, spirit. From 25 and up to 35 you can add hysteria and summon crab, but the thing dies instantly and your already energy starving setup gets even slower. Still thinking to try and switch to pets at around level 40 but 400 spirit req for the offhand is just not reachable it seems.
i levelled with icespike recently on a spellbreaker, was actually pretty decent/totally worth, the aoe is different/it has no dot, but seemed overall stronger the way i got used to it with passthrough
Even bothered me recently when i wanted to use Wradlith/chillblood carcass shields finding that it then blocks ice spike comps
Haven’t tried the new spam beheads so can’t really say much on how weak/decent/strong that feels
I liked ice spike but couldn’t use it for long. Thing is, under extreme conditions like attribute starvation, no OA, no energy, the range of options goes down pretty fast. You aren’t killing mobs fast enough and every small group needs to be lined up properly, while fireblast just hits everyone around you. Still slow, very slow. In fact, the crab from hysteria, without ANY pet bonuses, kills things faster than fireblast. And the crab is usually the least exciting option when doing pet builds because it’s really meh. This is just to give a perspective to how slow leveling is on veteran classless early on. Behead is suffering from the same problem, you aren’t hitting mobs due to low OA. Getting overwhelmed easily. And spreading too thin in HC = RIP.
2 Likes
Bro youve got this right.
In the past 2 or 3 years, I have tried literally every kind of classless build. I have lost at least 14 beloved characters, the only one thats been able to survive has been retaliation focused.
You can prioritize defenses without losing the bite of retaliation damage, so you get your offense as part of your defensive package, which is crucial due to the attribute starvation, and gear/devotion dependencies.
The most fun build I tried so far was the dual wield Assassin build, however if an enemy looked at it the wrong way it would die. And sure did. Lol.
Greater Fireblast has always been the GOAT in low to mid level classless, its just so damn good- The hit radius, great for mobs, great for painting target with Devotion procs, and with cast speed can just be devastating but you need those Ectoplasms, well worth it though.
Curious what you do on a retal build when you run across a mob with multiple healers. I tried a total passivist build and another retal build and ran across such mobs in the Spirit Totem in Arkovian Foothills or the Shrine in Cairan Docks. And after 10 or 15 minutes of trying absolutely everything I could think of to try to kite the healers away from each other I ultimately gave up. I realize that you are ultimately surviving the encounter but it is such an annoyance.
1 Like
If you built properly with a couple skills from gear/components that adds retaliation damage to attack, such as Brutal Shield Slam etc you can get some fat damage in your attacks from your total retaliation. With some target prioritization, you can focus on the healers one by one until theyre dead and then you can shift focus to the rest of the mobs.
Some of the mobility skill augments can help in this regard as well, such as with the Rune of Dreeg’s Wounds, which adds 40% of retaliation damage to attack.
So far the only thing I havent been able to kill is enemy heroes that are regenerators in mid-to-late Elite and Ultimate.
3 Likes
Speaking of attribute starvation here’s one affix to hunt for early on.
2 Likes
Noice! Going for the sentinel set?
I’m trying non retal this run, level 54, finished veteran, in act 2 elite right now. Can’t test too many options as this is a fresh start, meaning grinding all the gear and blueprints as you go. But I was able to test pets and … no, they just get instantly vaporized on veteran. Maybe it would somewhat work on normal? Not sure. But no, no pets for classless while you level.
haven’t this “challenge” become much easier over time now when normal scales so high?
Yes. But you don’t have to level to 100 on normal. I finished veteran at level 45. Now in act 2 elite. I’m trying to do the same run as 6 years ago, which was also done on Veteran till 45, then elite. Still, even veteran feels easier now. It’s practically raining gear and blueprints. Mats aren’t a problem anymore. Back then it took me a whole week to drop the correct relic blueprint lol.
In case anyone doesn’t know Contragor was the first player to do this challenge SSF once we knew it existed.
1 Like
And you don’t have to use items either 
I am not saying it is easy now, just that now you can get to 100 in normal. Of course the grind will be real, but it is just time.
That’s why SSF (solo self found) HC is so much fun. This challenge basically changes the entire game. You revisit every drop, every attribute point is precious, every mob encounter can be your last. Sometimes, in order to equip a particular item you need to switch several other items around multiple times to get the correct stats to be able to wear it. And it’s a lot more difficult than those endgame builds where you only need to boost one stat with swap gear.
Also, the grind here is the endgame. Level 100 doesn’t really matter. The journey towards it does.
2 Likes
I did the whole challenge with pets only, starting with Karvor’s Conjuring Bone at level 8.
But I guess the big difference is, I started leveling on normal instead of veteran, and my run wasn’t entirely SSF since I already had a Marrow Band in my stash which I started using at level 14. This ring gave me a temporary pet that reduces monster damage. I found a 2nd Marrow Band myself at some point (later exchanged them for the empowered versions, never found the mythicals though).
Those items gave me a headstart that made the beginning a whole lot easier, I guess having to farm them first in a true SSF Veteran run adds a tremendous challenge. But once you have them and go all in on pets with your items and devotions, even Veteran should be doable.
The next key item is the Black Grimoire of Og’Napesh (I got lucky and found one right around level 40). With that item you have 2 perma pets (Crab and Revenant) and 3 temp pets (2 from Marrow Band rings and 1 from Bysmiel’s Command devo skill)
The Revenant deals vitality damage, which will become the main damage type of this build.
Another important item for this build is Symbol Of Solael, your weapon/offhand component. It’s available at lvl 35 and its curse-like attack serves two purposes, it has chaos/vit RR and procs the Bysmiel’s Command devo skill.
With those things covered, you should be strong enough to farm Salazar’s MI for yet another temp pet. It might take a while to drop a decent MI that also has pet bonuses, I remember farming that boss quite often until I got one with a pet affix.
Bysmiel-Sect Legguards is another MI that you should farm for good pet affixes.
Once you are on Elite, the legendary items you should look out for are Bonescavenger’s Death Grips (3 temp pets) and Black Scource (3 temp pets that reduce resists).
Since the gloves convert all pet phys dmg to vitality, Necrolord’s Shroud is the best option for the chest (huge boost to pet damage and resists). But even without the gloves it’s probably BIS since the Revenant already deals vitality damage.
To convert elemental pet dmg to vitality, you need the Lunal’Valgoth Girdle. I farmed this MI not for pet affixes, but ones that fixed the holes in my resistances so I can go to Ultimate.
The amulet and medal can be whatever you can get that seems useful, I went for Zaria’s Pendant and Wendigo Gaze since I found some with really good affixes.
As for devotions, Bysmiel’s Command is obviously the first one to go for. Then I went for Behemoth and Ulo (Cleansing Waters bound to my movement rune), and finally for Tree of Life and Korvaak’s Eye (bound to the only option, Skeletal Servant). Alternatively, with some adjustments you could go for Rattosh instead of Korvaak but this setup worked well enough.
So yeah as you can see it is very much possible to level with pets, but I think it all boils down to the very beginning of the run. Those 2 extra pets from the Marrow Bands really made a difference, I think without them and the Grimoire you’ll have a much harder time especially on Veteran. But I guess you could start without pets and later switch to a pet setup once you found the necessary items.
edit: forgot to mention the helmet, I went for a Spectral Crown which shouldn’t be too hard to get with decent affixes. But anything that has pet bonuses is an option for that slot.
4 Likes
Maya made this though she just GDStashed it rather than levelling it.
2 Likes