Am I the only one who think that Devotion Procs bound to WPS skills should scale like procs on cdr skills do? For example, if I bind Falcon Swoop (15% on attack) to Whirling Death (20% chance to use) I’ll get a pitiful 3% chance of using Falcon Swoop. At the moment is hardly worthy to use devotion procs on WPS. Maybe they could make them thrice as effective? What are your thoughts?
I agree, but I’m also drunk so make of that what you will.
No, really, I do agree though.
The idea is to not make devotions over powered. You already get one on your primary attack. Having them also firing on the WPS’s that proc on your primary attack at a high rate is quite a lot more powerful than they intended for them to be. Those playing builds without WPS’s would be at a further disadvantage as well.
You do leave out that compared to normal attacks that Whirling Death is capable of hitting multiple enemies in a 360 degree circle and from what I have heard, it also hits enemies twice? (Never used it so uncertain on this point). If you dive into a crowd of trash, you should see whatever it’s bound too go off fairly regularly.
There’s also the fact that the number of WPSes you see scales up with attack speed.
I’m on the fence about buffing celestial power chances that have WPSes attached - if you’re smart about what your WPSes do, you can get some pretty strong combos like attaching Storm Spread to something due to the fact it fires a shotgun of 8 projectiles, it has a high chance of proccing something if several hit. Chilling Round is similar firing 3 or 4 projectiles. Necrotic Edge for melee weapons is a 180 degree cleave infront of you, good for proccing something on groups. Things like that. Not all WPSes are good for proccing celestial powers, I’ll agree that plenty are pretty lacklustre but some like Storm Spread are brilliant.
There’s also what bystander said that weapon users that take advantage of this are capable of effectively binding multiple celestial powers to their default weàpon attack/replacer which streamlines how they play immensely.
Wait what, doesn’t it only proc on the WPS proccing?
When DevSwarm + Rend/Falconswoop/insert preferred celestial proc here exists this is not much of an argument. DevSwarm is a monster at proccing things. Blade Spirit too, but BS sucks except for proccing.
And the number of devswarms I see goes up with cast speed. So? I’m lost on how this would be a game-breaking change.
Yes, but you can now put a devotion proc on your default attack, and other devotions for every WPS you have.
That allows people that have WPS’s the ability to bind up to 6-7 devotions to your default attack in effect, as the WPS’s proc on the default attack. That’s a pretty huge advantage. If you make WPS’s proc devotions at an increased rate, that starts to become pretty absurd.
The WPS have a 20-25 percent chance tops of proccing on the default attack/attack replacer. Technically less if Cadence is involved. In that 20-25 percent chance, you have a yet smaller chance (15-25 percent or summat, of 20-25 percent) of proccing the devotion. That’s tiny, and while increased attack speed helps AS is capped at 200 percent anyway. Yes, it’s more streamlined, but how do you quantify that and balance around it?
EDIT: the Multi-hit WPS are a bit of a scales-tipper if it’s ‘per hit’ and not ‘per proc’ though. Is that what I’m missing here?
EDIT 2: That must be the case, after a brief test with WD and Falcon Swoop. If so then the numbers are just misleadingly low, I guess.
It is per hit, not per proc. So that already makes them proc a lot more than you originally are thinking.
It’s also already a bit of an unfair advantage for WPS users to be able to attach devotions to them in the first place. All other builds have to take and cast other skills if they want to be capable of procing an additional devotion. Now you want to increase their odds? That sounds a bit greedy to me.
Storm Spread, chilling rounds, and Bursting rounds already have large boosts to them landing due to the per hit rule. You don’t need to increase it. If you boosted it, the odds would be nearly 100% on every 4 or 5th attack.
It’s not like WPS are free. You have to invest points into them, you have to use them with a default/replacer, and there’s a balance to how many you can have and how many will proc with the way WPS weighting works. That boils your complaint down to them having an idiot-button easy-peasy way of proccing devotions, except there’s a limit to how many of THOSE they can proc as well because only one WPS can go off at any given time, meaning 2 TOPS devotions (one on the replacer, one on the WPS) can go off on the same use of the skill and that’s not necessarily very likely. Still, ease of use is definitely a factor, but it’s also really hard to quantify and balance around because it’s so damn subjective in regards to how much a given player gets out of it.
EDIT: What if they made it so that guaranteed only ONE devotion can go off at once while bound to a default/WPS?
EDIT 2: Actually, why aren’t there spell/non-default-skill “WPS” abilities? That seems like a potentially interesting way to add on effects.
Why do you feel that people with WPS’s should have up to 7 devotions firing off regularly on a single attack button is balanced compared to every other build, especially casters, who can only have 1?
Basically, you see the how powerful it would be to assign devotions on every WPS you have, and would like to see it in its full overpowered form. They’ve chosen not to make it super powerful, but on the right WPS’s, they still go off a lot now.
Show me a caster that only uses one bindable skill. Go ahead. That said, I don’t KNOW how balanced it would be, but I’m inclined to think the difference isn’t earthshattering. This gets into a general “melee vs. caster” balance debate and the casters I played can hurt things as well as a melee character could, they just had a few more buttons to push. Sometimes not even that.
My brief run with WD/FS showed that it was on-hit, which means WD is good for proccing. So WD is probably fine. MA is garbage for proccing, though, and Zolhan’s feels pretty middling to poor at it so far. “The right WPS” is the key phrase here.
As someone who makes a lot of casters and gun users. Gun users do quite a lot more DPS, and have a lot easier time to survive due to ADCTH, except for maybe the spellbinder with a CDR build. Their DPS is lower, but they have good survival too.
Due to WPS’s, procs and all, it only takes 60K sheet DPS to equal and surpass 200K DPS on a skill like AAR, which is probably your highest DPS single target caster skill. WPS builds already do a lot of damage, and have a lot of advantages already. Why do you really think they need more?
And it’s not like casters want to cast multiple abilities. The only reason so many pick up CT is simply to get a devotion proc. A lot of my casters pick up Aether corruption as a way to get devotion procs. Others pick up blood pox for devotion procs. Most caster builds would prefer to use 1 ability if they could, unless it’s a CDR build. They pick up more because of devotions a lot of the time.
Yeah, I was actually thinking that maybe it could be a little op considering other procs and default attack replacers. I didn’t take in account that devotion proc chances are rolled for each enemy hit neither. Is that confirmed?
It seems that the issue here is not that WPS are bad for binding Devotions to but that certain ones are better than others.
My suggestion would be to weigh the chance to proc a devotion on the number of targets a WPS can affect, similar to the CD on spells.
Even then, it’s a big Quality of Life feature and generally stronger as you can bind devotions to your default attack and just click on enemies where spellcasters have to dedicate certain spells to certain devotions. On the other hand, spellcasters have a lot more reliability on which devotions they proc.
In my opinion, I didn’t like binding devotions to WPS as they would never proc. I understand that this was due to it being earlier in the game and having full % chance to proc a WPS, as well as max attack speed, will make a big difference.
chilling rounds and storm spread are the only good ones for binding, really good actually
There seems to be the problem: some WPS are far better than others.
Sure, there are some spells that are much better at procing devotions than others (when considering no cooldown options) however it is a bit balanced for CD based ones.
I wonder if the same should be considered for different WPS?
EDIT: I guess the question is whether Chilling Rounds and Storm Spread need to be toned down or if the other WPS need to be buffed in chance to proc.
Even then… do we want devotions to reliably trigger on WPS? Would it be balanced?
You need to put them into more context:p If you just look that hem like that on their own you can’t make an accurate judgement. some WPS are better than others at different things, according to different builds that may or may not have certain advantages or require compromise is some aspects…is it DW, 2h, ranged, melee. There is a lot to talk about
Ah, sorry for being vague here. I specifically meant in terms of procing devotions, nothing else.
If, as a baseline, the skill can hit potentially 8 times and provide a plethora of initial hit damage as well as DoTs then it is better than a skill that only hits once with no dots. I think that’s regardless of the weapon.
This is not to say that, say, a gunslinger with storm spread won’t trigger more devotions than a 2 hander with no attack speed but relative they will more like trigger it with Storm Spread than Markovian’s Advantage. That was my point.
This comment irks me.
Who cares about the number of buttons you push?
Which is better, 6 devotions being regularly triggered over 5 attacks, or
7 devotions permanently active?
A rotation caster can have all their spells active at the same time.
Each active spell has a chance to trigger ON cast AND for the duration.
In any one attack instance a WPS user has a chance to trigger:
1 Devotion using the default attack replacer
1 Devotion using a WPS.
A Rotation caster can trigger:
1 Devotion using a spell.
n Devotions = number of spells active.
The WPS devotions are also RNG. You may be unlucky and not get your RR for a good while.
If you trigger the same WPS the Devotion cooldown may not be up.
Finally, no one is asking for OP Devotion procs. Just a reasonable chance is all.
I think it’s relevant as there’s a big difference in playstyle and efficiency.
Being able to just attack is mostly affected by the character’s stats (mostly attack speed) and the WPS they are using.
With spells, it can be entirely effective for a player to have 5 hotkeys they can rapidly press versus someone who can barely use 2 spells at once effectively. This depends more on an individual basis rather than a global metric.
I think the main concern is that favouring WPS can horribly tip the balance in favour of auto attackers over spellcasters (as any small change usually does) and the way that they scale can make it very dangerous to tweak these things unwisely.
I already mentioned before that spellcasters have more control over which devotions they proc and when however it’s a huge advantage to only have to use the LMB and consistently trigger 2-5 devotions in a certain time span. It also depends on playstyle and the individual when it comes to spells.
I suppose the ultimate question still remains: do auto attackers really need this to be as effective as spellcasters? My initial guess is no as they tend to outrank them in every sense (some exceptions with CD spellcasters though).