Difficulty is non existent - Proposed fixes

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

That’s all. That’s the biggest issue I have with the game, and despite it being the only problem I have with it, it’s a massive problem in my eyes, and the main thing that stops me from wanting to do any more playthroughs of the game. The difficulty just isn’t there and so whenever I think of playing through, I remember just how much of a slog it feels like. No areas that really get the adrenaline pumping. No enemies in particular (other than a few Nemesis) that feel very threatening.

You know what this game needs? It needs for the enemies (yes, the regular run of the mill enemies too) to have more of an identity. As of now a lot of enemies feel too similar, too basic and just plain too safe.

Now I’m going to avoid comparing the game with PoE for the most part, but there’s one thing PoE does right that I feel really drives in the point I’m trying to make and that’s making enemy types feel unique. The type of danger they pose to the player is different for each enemy type.
In Grim Dawn, I feel like I’m fighting the same handful of shit which just look differently but behave the same.
Now this issue technically doesn’t even require the devs to make a group of new enemies (though I’m sure I speak for absolutely everybody when I say that nobody would mind this one bit, in fact it would be the best solution possible), they could simply edit the creatures we have now and make them behave differently and have their own unique threats.

For example, make a certain group of enemies be extremely fast moving so they can shut the distance between the player incredibly quickly. Make them be a threat to ranged characters, but make it so that characters in heavy armor find them trivial to deal with.

Want a example of a good enemy type that is already in Grim Dawn? The Shambler. I fucking love these things so much and wish there were more like it, because these things will straight up kill you if you deal with them wrong.

You don’t need to make regular packs of enemies trivial. It makes the game boring as hell if that’s the case. You guys have a ton of enemy types, give somebody the task of going through them and touching them up so that they uniquely pose threats to certain builds. They don’t have to be universally dangerous against every type of character. Something that causes mages to sweat can be a cakewalk for a melee character for example. That adds variety so that when people play through the game as a different class, they have to adapt to new challenges.

I know this shit has been ranty as fuck but I’m saying all of this because I can’t really get excited for the expansion even though it’s adding 2 new masteries and a bunch of new devotions because the game is simply too easy. It really needs a bump on normal, elite and ultimate, like seriously guys.
Anyway other than the changes I mentioned before about making enemies threatening in their own unique ways, why do we still not have a veteran version of elite and ultimate? I remember when I hit elite, I couldn’t even feel a jump in difficulty at all. Giving a veteran mode for the higher difficulties would help in this regard.

Last thing I’d like to bring up in regards to difficulty.

The first two chapters are simply too easy.
Now hold the fuck up for just a minute, because I know what you’re thinking. They’re supposed to be easy because they’re the starting chapters, right? Well sure, on normal mode they are yes. But when you loop and hit the next difficulty, you have basically played through the entire game. You know what to expect, you know the enemies of the area, you know the bosses. There’s no reason for them to be such a snoozefest to get through.
I’m not asking for them to be ball breakingly hard or anything, I just want them to not be so easy. I personally think chapter 2 is the weakest chapter and that it feels almost like filler, but perhaps that’s truly just because of how easy it is. I mean does anybody think Darius is difficult at any point? On any difficulty? With any build? I can’t think of a single build type that would struggle against him.
I feel like he should be tweaked for sure because his fight isn’t very interest, isn’t intimidating and just plain blows to be blunt about it.

Those are my complaints anyway. I know they sound overly negative but difficulty is absolutely essential in a genre like this in which you are more than likely going to do multiple playthroughs with multiple different builds. I feel like the 3 issues I mentioned are all pretty important but the enemies feeling too samey and non threatening is definitely my biggest issue which I hope gets addressed. There’s quite literally nothing that would please me more than to hear that my moaning has been heard and that some work will be put into making things harder (especially considering the player will have more options than ever with the new expansion to get even more powerful).
I’d personally shill the fuck out of the game in various places if that happened. Ain’t even joking.

Last thing. I have tried mods to help with increasing the difficulty but they usually just increase the enemy numbers which while that does work, doesn’t fix the core problems with enemies feeling too similar to each other. Make my day Crate, assign somebody to go back and redo some enemy families to make them unique and difficult in their own ways. You have a ton of creatures to work with and it’s a shame to see them all so similar in every way other than looks.

2

A) You’ve been through Ultimate, yes?
B) You’ve fought Rashalga, The Mad Queen? The Avatar of Mogdrogen? And The Edge of Reality?
C) You’ve soloed Crucible at the Gladiator Difficulty, all 150 waves?

If the answer to any of the above is NO, then you are not yet qualified to judge the game, and should instead focus on completing the game at least once BEFORE making this kind of post.

3

A) pretty sure he does as he speak about “Normal, Elite and Ultimate” and “other than a few Nemesis”

B) Those are very specific challenges, no relation whatsoever with the overall difficulty of the campaign in let’s say Ultimate

C) No relation with the difficulty of the main campaign again (different gameplay, different builds …)

So maybe read the post BEFORE writing too …

It is true that Ultimate difficulty is rather easy and straightforward with a good build and good gear (at least it’s how I feel). Except with Nemesis and Mad Queen (and sometimes Shar’Zul or Aldtrich), my chars don’t die anymore from trash mobs and normal bosses/heroes. It’s a fact.

Increasing the difficulty would not be a good thing to do either, as it will become too hard for newcomers.

A Veteran mode for Elite and Ultimate would be a good solution (it will certainly not happen but one can dream :slight_smile: )

4

OP is too good for this game… would love to know the build he’s rocking with…:cool:

Sadly for me… I have played this game for quite some time now… know a lot of techniques… but still I die a lot.:(…

5

Like the idea of Veteran Elite / Veteran Ultimate but instead of just swarming with more ennemy like in normal it could make them harder OR give them extra abilities. Honestly except the Hulker than can actually move the distance or some reflector ennemies nothing is dangerous for a good build in the main game (again outside of Nemesis/MQ)

6

A) I read it, I just find it doubtful he DID it. Calling Ultimate “too easy” is a bit much.
B) Those are PART of the game. He says the game is not difficult enough. So those count.
C) True, but it’s the standard measure of builds now, and it’s marginally more difficult. If he’s looking for more difficulty… There’s the place to look.

Your character not dying to trash mobs… That just means your character doesn’t suck. Most games, you DON’T die to trash mobs. It’s how it goes. Most heroes are also fairly simple on their own, as the majority are simply upgraded trash monsters, and the upgrades aren’t that big. Hell, hero Flesh Hulks are easier than regular ones. Heroes are only meant to be threatening in groups, or when with a Boss, or a Nemesis. They hardly seem intended to be a threat all by themselves.

I’m not sure what difficulty the OP is looking for… Perhaps those “insane” modes? The kind of thing where, if anything even taps you, you die? Some games have those, yes… Would hardly function here, though. Your first Flesh Hulk would insta kill you, much less avoiding everything a boss ever does.

7

Ultimate used to be rather brutal around the official release of the game and a lot of people complained about that. Highly doubt they will ever go back to that.
Then again, even now some people complain that Ultimate is a little too hard.

I wouldn’t mind a veteran version for Elite and Ultimate but i doubt it will ever be implemented.

8

how bout some ultra/uber nemesis spawns? :rolleyes:

9

We are going to have Mythical Legendaries, we need Mythical Nemeses ! :rolleyes:

10

First 2 yes, all with hardcore characters as well. Years of playing roguelikes have made it so having death have no meaning feels dull to me, so I always play with permadeath in games when given the choice.
I don’t own Crucible nor am I interested in that game mode as a whole. It’s a completely separate part of the game so I have no idea why the fuck you would say something as silly as I’m not qualified to judge difficulty just because I don’t own it when it’s essentially its own thing.

You mention in your other post that trash mobs aren’t supposed to kill you. So what, you’re happy with playing through essentially 30+ hours of filler just for 4 fights that actually feel challenging? Well even if your answer turns out to be yes, I’m not. That shit puts me off wanting to play again if I’m just going to steamroll through the game again and only have to put some thought into a handful of encounters. Regular monsters shouldn’t be some crazy difficult conundrum to overcome, that would get tiring, but they shouldn’t be trivial. Other ARPGs have certain trash packs be more effective against certain builds, and that’s the correct way to go about things. You can be a mage blasting through a certain area which is relatively easy for you but then have to play a bit more cautiously in another area which have mobs that can pose a problem for you if you play recklessly.
This is something which grimdawn lacks from my experience. I’ve played a mage and a 2 handed melee character to completion and didn’t really notice anything that gave my mage more trouble than my melee guy or vice versa.

11

Well if you’re that good at the game, play through on hardcore. Since you’re so damn good at this game that nothing is a challenge, you should be able to solo nemeses, the avatar of modrogen, and the john bourbon clones all without dying.

Or maybe you just want to whine about the game without actually playing the modes specifically made for your kind. One of these.

12

It would be nice if regular enemies were interspersed with some degree of challenge, at least with the champion and hero monsters. Anything that isn’t a nemesis or some kind of super boss feels very homogeneous to fight. Like you are rarely ever forced to alter your tactics for 99% of encounters.

13

See

Also what is it with these people who cannot seem to read? It’s like they see somebody talking about shit being too easy and just immediately sperg out without processing what has been said.
Yes, there’s a handful of challenging fights in the game. How about you stop tunnel visioning on those and take a look at the state of the rest of the game?

My post brought up 3 specific issues I have, and non of those directly referred to the few things that are already in a good place.

  1. Trash monsters being too samey other than looks and not having a specific niche threat that makes them unique at causing certain builds some issues.

2)Adding a veteran mode to Elite and Ultimate.

3)The first 2 chapters being too easy on both Elite and Ultimate (with a hint of giving Darius shit since he’s a bad boss)

The bosses that keep getting brought up in some overly defensive way are all fine and do what they’re supposed to do. That doesn’t change the fact that the other 95% of the game is overly easy even on the modes where that shouldn’t be the case.

14

Except it’s not a fact. You might find it too easy and that’s fine, but don’t try to pass it off a fact. I know several people who find Ultimate a little too hard and their point is just as valid.

15

No. What I find challenging is the one thing that makes ARPGs differ from, say… RPGs. The BUILDS. The challenge is in making a build, with some item you like, or a skill you enjoy, and trying to make it work in every way you can think of, and being proud when you manage it.

If all you want is to kill things that are hard to kill, there are many, MANY games made specifically FOR that. This game is not. This game is made for builds. There are challenges, yes… But they are hardly the focus.

Crate didn’t spend all the time to make all these items and classes, just to provide a backdrop for challenges. The challenges are the backdrops to your options with which to surpass said challenges.

If you’d like to specifically gimp yourself, and you don’t find the difficulty adding mods are enough… I suggest eying the “all rares” mod, as that’s said to add serious difficulty even though it’s not the focus. I’d also suggesting using an item that is underused, or a skill, so that you hinder yourself voluntarily.

Or, you know… The Souls games are right over there.

16

As far as I can tell/remember, Crate have made some efforts to make the jump from difficulty to difficulty smoother or less harsh, i’m not all that surprised Act 1/2 aren’t difficult.

17

I didn’t get an indication that the OP was asking for something like that at all. His request as far as I could tell is to diversify enemy behavior to make fights more dynamic which in turn makes them more challenging.

18

Exactly, that’s the point I’m trying to make. Apparently people think I’m trying to ask for regular enemies to be a significant boss-tier challenge. That’s not what I’m getting at at all though. I could list a ton of enemies from grim dawn that all get dealt with in basically the exact same fashion because they behave so similarly. This game is rife with variety in terms of enemy types though, so why not give them combat abilities that make them unique.

Such as (and this is literally off the top of my head and just random examples of niches I made up)
Stonetusks - dangerous because they charge + stun
Wasp - dangerous because they swarm and stack actual potent poisons (punishes builds which lack AoE)
Briarthorn - dangerous because they can deal some decent internal trauma damage

Right now if a regular enemy does have a niche, it feels overly toned down. Like a Mosquito causing bleed damage that is so low you barely even notice it. The things that make each enemy unique should be played up rather than down.

I wanna play a mage and be like “Oh shit, I’m coming up to blah blah area which has those (insert enemy here) fucks there, time to actually pay a bit of attention so I don’t get my shit pushed in”.

19

Boss fights are dynamic. Each feels very different. But the OP feels they are too easy. Also, the OP specifically is complaining about the enemies… Yet as I said, games like this, the enemies are what you test your build against, not what you test your SKILLS against. The builds are the point here, not individual skill. Few skills in Grim Dawn take much mechanical skill to use correctly. Few builds, as well. The challenge is in MAKING the build. Enemies are simply there to test your build against, to provide a backdrop for the purpose of the game.

Again, if builds weren’t the point… Why did Crate spend so much time with all these items, skills, and masteries? The Souls game get by on far less options, and look how popular they are, and so challenging, too. That’s because the Souls game are about your skill at playing, not your skill at building.

20

That would make no sense, though. Aetherials are basically moving corpses. Moving corpses can only do so much, before the player goes “That makes no sense. A possessed corpse can’t do X, it wouldn’t even be feasible”. You can’t reasonably diversify EVERY enemy, either. That takes an insane amount of time, for basically no return for most players.

Also, if you DID get what you claim to want… Then you wouldn’t be playing a mage and going “oh no, these enemies are coming up”… You’d say that with EVERY character. Currently, most people go “Oh no, Flesh Hulks are coming up”… On EVERY BUILD. There’s no reasonable way to make an enemy harder for a mage compared to a ranged build compared to a melee build. The closest Crate has come is Rashalga’s projectile thing… Except that also counts a variety of procs that Melees also use, so… Nope.